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Split T wrote:

Shabazz wrote:I think the top 3 are pretty clear for me and I'd be disappointed with any pick 4 or below.

Fultz, Ball, and Jackson? Those are my clear top 3. We'd still get a nice prospect at 4, but I'd be disappointed to miss out on the top 3 as well.

Yup. I'm just not as excited about Smith Jr., Tatum, Monk, Isaac, etc.

I don't love that Jackson's a year older than most of the other guys, though.

Issac would be #4 for me, I think he's a similar, but better prospect than Brandon Ingram, but he's a step down from Fultz, Ball, Jackson. And Jackson is a bit older, he's actually older than Chriss and Bender, and only a few months younger than Booker.

Split T wrote:Issac would be #4 for me, I think he's a similar, but better prospect than Brandon Ingram, but he's a step down from Fultz, Ball, Jackson. And Jackson is a bit older, he's actually older than Chriss and Bender, and only a few months younger than Booker.

I dont think Isaac has anywhere near the on the ball ability of Ingram. Ingram is a superior prospect to me. I prefer Tatum to Isaac too, by a fair margin. I think Duke and their system is holding Tatum back a lot like UK's did with Booker.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

Split T wrote:Issac would be #4 for me, I think he's a similar, but better prospect than Brandon Ingram, but he's a step down from Fultz, Ball, Jackson. And Jackson is a bit older, he's actually older than Chriss and Bender, and only a few months younger than Booker.

I dont think Isaac has anywhere near the on the ball ability of Ingram. Ingram is a superior prospect to me. I prefer Tatum to Isaac too, by a fair margin. I think Duke and their system is holding Tatum back a lot like UK's did with Booker.

Ingram does have better ball skills. Isaac is bigger, longer, and more athletic. I think he's got more potential defensively and will be able to play the 4. I used to think Ingram would be able to play the 4, not so sure anymore.

Tatum reminds me of a better TJ Warren. I wish he had a better outside shot.

FYI, per 40 minute stats for Jackson, Issac, Tatum and Ingram

Ingram: 20.0 points, 7.8 boards, 2.3 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.6 blocks, 2.3 turnovers and .442/.410/.682 shooting splits
Issac: 20.2 points, 12.3 boards, 1.5 assists, 2.1 steals, 2.3 blocks, 2.5 turnovers and .524/.354/.817 shooting splits
Tatum: 20.2 points, 9.1 boards, 2.7 assists, 1.8 steals, 1.8 blocks, 3.5 turnovers and .438/.317/.854 shooting splits
Jackson: 22.2 points, 9.4 boards, 4.0 assists, 2.2 steals, 1.5 blocks, 3.5 turnovers and .515/.364/.552 shooting splits

Here are the PG's per 40, I'll add De'Angelo Russell for comparison:

Fultz: 25.9 points, 6.7 boards, 6.7 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.4 blocks, 3.5 turnovers and .479/.421/.644 shooting splits
Ball: 17.1 points, 6.8 boards, 8.5 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.9 blocks, 2.9 turnovers and .541/.430/.671 shooting splits
Smith: 21.8 points, 5.2 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.4 steals, 0.4 blocks, 3.7 turnovers and .463/.383/.721 shooting splits
Fox: 21.3 points, 5.7 boards, 7.3 assists, 2.2 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.2 turnovers and .471/.174/.730 shooting splits
Monk: 27.5 points, 2.8 boards, 2.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 0.6 blocks, 2.5 turnovers and .486/.414/822 shooting splits
Russell: 22.7 points, 6.7 boards, 5.9 assists, 1.9 steals, 0.4 blocks, 3.4 turnovers and .449/.411/.756 shooting splits

Nobody is worried about that wacky shooting motion that Ball has? I mean I know that he's been able to get his shot off consistently thus far in his career. But now that he's in the NBA against longer faster stronger athletes... Saw the UCLA Oregon game and he has great footwork for that step back move but then he still barely has enough space for that shot.

fultz is slightly overrated. ball is properly rated. markannen is underrated.

Thanks for those numbers, Splits.

The big men in this draft aren't as good as the guards and wings, but I'll include the top ones there too.

Markkanen: 20.0 points, 9.4 boards, 1.2 assists, 0.5 steals, 0.6 blocks with .494/.472/.829 shooting splits
Bridges: 20.2 points, 10.3 boards, 2.6 assists, 0.8 steals, 2.2 blocks with .500/.400/.617 shooting splits
Giles: 16.6 points, 14.7 boards, 1.2 assists, 0.5 steals, 1.9 blocks with .544/.000/.500 shooting splits
Williams: 19.2 points, 12.3 boards, 2.2 assists, 1.0 steals, 4.2 blocks with .566/.000/.611 shooting splits

Patton: 21.6 points, 10.2 boards, 2.0 assists, 1.7 steals, 2.8 blocks with .700/.500/.522 shooting splits *only 12 3 pt attempts
Rabb: 17.9 points, 12.9 boards, 2.1 assists, 0.8 steals, 1.5 blocks with .513/.462/.653 shooting splits *only 13 3 pt attempts
Collins: 28.4 points, 14.8 boards, 0.7 assists, 0.9 steals, 2.7 blocks with .604/.000/.720 shooting splits
Adebayo: 18.7 points, 10.0 boards, 1.2 assists, 1.0 steals, 2.3 blocks with .603/.000/.617 shooting splits

Rabb and Collins are sophomores, the others are freshman.
Could have included Bridges as a 3, but I'm not sure he'll be able to play it at a high level in the NBA, although his 3 pt shot has been good this year.

I've seen Bridges compared to Barkley by some scouts, though I'm not sure. I haven't seen him enough, other than his crazy athleticism highlights.

I'm really surprised by Giles numbers. Is that Harry Giles from Duke?

Ya it's harry Giles. These are all per 40 minute numbers though. Giles doesn't play as many minutes as everyone else, so his numbers are the most likely to be misleading.

here's duh link

http://cbbref.com/tiny/qxWr9

Ball's shooting form really bothers me. He makes shots and has confidence, but I think that form will catch up with him in the NBA and I can't see him being an off the dribble threat. Still, if he's in a backcourt with a dominant scorer like Booker, maybe it won't matter. Right now I'm leaning towards Fultz.

Yeah, Ball has a very different form. It's not affecting him on wide open shots or his step backs, but I don't think he's going to be able to speed up his release which he will need in the NBA. This also keeps him from scoring from midrange, where a pg should be automatic with a pull up at the freethrow line. I just don't think he has that in his arsenal. It helps that he's athletic and 6'6". I could see him working on changing his shot form though. He has a high competitive streak in him, and doing whatever it takes to win.

Remember when some thought that Kendall Marshall was going to be good, except he was slow, couldn't shoot, didn't rebound, couldn't play defense and couldn't create for himself. Ball is like Marshall, except he can do everything that Marshall could, just better and he can do everything that Marshall couldn't.

In2ition wrote:Remember when some thought that Kendall Marshall was going to be good, except he was slow, couldn't shoot, didn't rebound, couldn't play defense and couldn't create for himself. Ball is like Marshall, except he can do everything that Marshall could, just better and he can do everything that Marshall couldn't.

So he's nothing like Kendall Marshall then?

carey wrote:

In2ition wrote:Remember when some thought that Kendall Marshall was going to be good, except he was slow, couldn't shoot, didn't rebound, couldn't play defense and couldn't create for himself. Ball is like Marshall, except he can do everything that Marshall could, just better and he can do everything that Marshall couldn't.

So he's nothing like Kendall Marshall then?

Haha, yeah, except that Marshall was a great passer.

In hindsight, how horrible was that pick? Marshall had a high bball IQ, and could pass, but how did we not insist that all his other limitations were going to absolutely sink his career in a quick way?

In2ition wrote:In hindsight, how horrible was that pick? Marshall had a high bball IQ, and could pass, but how did we not insist that all his other limitations were going to absolutely sink his career in a quick way?

A total garbage pick. Kendall Marshall wouldn't even be the most athletic dude on the court during pickup games at Lifetime Fitness.