Page 15 of 257
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:32 pm
by Indy
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm
Gambo said he got a message from Ayton's agent that said he was "never offered a max."
Again, the implication is they won't even offer him the $172.5M.
you don't know that
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
by Suns_Dave
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
by Split T
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:43 pm
by Indy
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
AND CAN MATCH ANYTHING HE GETS OFFERED NEXT YEAR
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:45 pm
by AmareIsGod
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
Hopefully he doesn't regress or pout and disrupt chemistry because he feels slighted, not uncommon for young athletes, especially in the NBA.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:46 pm
by Suns_Dave
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
It took MIL four years of contending with Giannis to get over the top.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:50 pm
by Split T
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:46 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
It took MIL four years of contending with Giannis to get over the top.
Ayton is not Giannis…He’s closer to Brook López.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:51 pm
by Shabazz
Another reason to have gotten it done is that I think Ayton at the max is still a very tradeable contract.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:52 pm
by AmareIsGod
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:50 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:46 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
It took MIL four years of contending with Giannis to get over the top.
Ayton is not Giannis…He’s closer to Brook López.
On somewhere in between. Please... Brook Lopez? I get it. You don't view Ayton in too fond of a light.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm
by AmareIsGod
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:51 pm
Another reason to have gotten it done is that I think Ayton at the max is still a very tradeable contract.
But he's Brook Lopez, apparently. And he's not consistent enough during the regular season. And extremely efficient and talented 7ft players that don't require ball dominance to impact the game grow on trees, apparently.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:01 pm
by Split T
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:51 pm
Another reason to have gotten it done is that I think Ayton at the max is still a very tradeable contract.
But he's Brook Lopez, apparently. And he's not consistent enough during the regular season. And extremely efficient and talented 7ft players that don't require ball dominance to impact the game grow on trees, apparently.
They kinda do actually. Remember Richaun Holmes? Athletic 7 footers can hang around for years in the nba on that fact alone. Of course Ayton is on the higher end of these guys, but nothing he’s doing is earth shattering. Rudy Gobert is also an incredibly efficient 7ft that doesn’t require ball dominance. So was Tyson Chandler. DeAndre Jordan. Clint Capela. I want more if I’m paying 200 million dollars
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:03 pm
by JeremyG
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:43 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
AND CAN MATCH ANYTHING HE GETS OFFERED NEXT YEAR
As Gambo just said, Jones is not going to keep someone around that doesn't want to be here. If Ayton says, "Don't match it, I don't want to be here" then Jones will let him leave.
I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand this, after it's already happened to Sarver once.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:06 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:03 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:43 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy?
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
AND CAN MATCH ANYTHING HE GETS OFFERED NEXT YEAR
As Gambo just said, Jones is not going to keep someone around that doesn't want to be here. If Ayton says, "Don't match it, I don't want to be here" then Jones will let him leave.
I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand this, after it's already happened to Sarver once.
I really hope we are awesome this year or this will be a long season discussing Ayton’s contract.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:06 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:01 pm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:51 pm
Another reason to have gotten it done is that I think Ayton at the max is still a very tradeable contract.
But he's Brook Lopez, apparently. And he's not consistent enough during the regular season. And extremely efficient and talented 7ft players that don't require ball dominance to impact the game grow on trees, apparently.
They kinda do actually. Remember Richaun Holmes? Athletic 7 footers can hang around for years in the nba on that fact alone. Of course Ayton is on the higher end of these guys, but nothing he’s doing is earth shattering. Rudy Gobert is also an incredibly efficient 7ft that doesn’t require ball dominance. So was Tyson Chandler. DeAndre Jordan. Clint Capela. I want more if I’m paying 200 million dollars
He's already shown way more offensive skill than those players. Why punish him for making him sacrifice his scoring/touches for Monty's system?
Also, show me Tyson Chandler's 24-point quarter.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:16 pm
by Suns_Dave
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:06 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:03 pm
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:43 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm
Suns_Dave wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:39 pm
If you have an extremely rare chance to win a title, maybe the best chance in 50 years with no clearly dominant team standing in your way, YES. You do whatever it takes, or you regret it the rest of your life.
I'm getting a little dramatic here, but this is basically my feeling whenever rare opportunities present themselves in life generally.
Sometimes I think people forget that we still get Ayton this year, regardless of his extension situation.
AND CAN MATCH ANYTHING HE GETS OFFERED NEXT YEAR
As Gambo just said, Jones is not going to keep someone around that doesn't want to be here. If Ayton says, "Don't match it, I don't want to be here" then Jones will let him leave.
I don't understand why it is so hard for people to understand this, after it's already happened to Sarver once.
I really hope we are awesome this year or this will be a long season discussing Ayton’s contract.
I'm mentally preparing myself now for every interview between a suns player or coach and any national media figure to circle back to the DA contract situation... for the next 7-8 months... because you know they will.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:20 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:06 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:01 pm
AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm
Shabazz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:51 pm
Another reason to have gotten it done is that I think Ayton at the max is still a very tradeable contract.
But he's Brook Lopez, apparently. And he's not consistent enough during the regular season. And extremely efficient and talented 7ft players that don't require ball dominance to impact the game grow on trees, apparently.
They kinda do actually. Remember Richaun Holmes? Athletic 7 footers can hang around for years in the nba on that fact alone. Of course Ayton is on the higher end of these guys, but nothing he’s doing is earth shattering. Rudy Gobert is also an incredibly efficient 7ft that doesn’t require ball dominance. So was Tyson Chandler. DeAndre Jordan. Clint Capela. I want more if I’m paying 200 million dollars
He's already shown way more offensive skill than those players. Why punish him for making him sacrifice his scoring/touches for Monty's system?
Also, show me Tyson Chandler's 24-point quarter.
He’s shown very rare flashes of it, but nothing consistently. And he has every opportunity. He gets the ball all the time with the option to attack and chooses not to.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:22 pm
by Superbone
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:07 pm
Is he wearing a Payton jersey? Pay Ayton? Lol
He's just blatantly traveling now! Is this going to be the new Ayton ALL YEAR LONG?!
AND refusing to shoot the ball.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:27 pm
by Aztec Sunsfan
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 pm
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:20 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:51 pm
Good luck with that, with a nasty owner like Robert Sarver. And you all are forgetting the other examples people in the media have pointed out, such as Gordon Hayward getting matched but wanting to leave just a few years later.
Hayward played out the 4 years of his contract and left in free agency. There were no problems while he was there in Utah.
He left after 3 years (I think the team they matched put a PO in there). And that's my point. He didn't want to stay there long term, after they refused to extend him before he was a RFA.
And the solution to this, is to overpay everyone, to keep them happy? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!!
Fear to separation is the worst advisor. You have to be willing to stand up from the table, and reset negotiations.
I don't agree that it's an overpay. But yes, even if it is, it's worth it to keep everyone happy to try to win a title this year and the next few years.
Except that this little thing called Salary Cap, and that huge stick called Luxury Tax prevent your great plan to succeed, not even the teams with the deepest pockets are withstanding that money bleed. So even if it's not overpay, resource allocation still mandates for smart negotiating over panicked-induced contracts surrendering.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:31 pm
by Shabazz
I think there's validity to the narrative that Ayton "sacrificed" his numbers for the betterment of the team, but I also think a lot of that "sacrifice" was showing up to camp out of shape and playing tentatively for more than half the season.
This is a complex situation. I do think they should have maxed him. I also understand the arguments against it. For me this is an issue of Sarver needing to win the battle, even if it costs him the war.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:31 pm
by Superbone
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:28 pm
Oof. This is really bad news. I wish they had been able to work something out. I wonder what Saver/Jones were willing to offer him? I wonder how far apart they were? The standard max seems like a no-brainer to me, not because Ayton is a perfect player, but because the max is relatively low for a key top-3 guy on a title team and I think Ayton proved he's worth that.
I think this will be the beginning of the end of the DeAndre Ayton era here in Phoenix. He'll play out this year here, but then he'll say he wants out and does not want us to match whatever RFA offer he goes out and gets. And he'll get the RFA max, which Saver won't be willing to match because why pay that much for somebody who doesn't even want to play for your team?
The well is poisoned and the relationship is broken. I thought we'd found our center of the future, but I guess the search continues. Thanks, Robert Sarver. I should go back and edit my season predictions because NO WAY do we get #1 in the West with this BS hanging over us all season.
I think this is a little melodramatic and over the top but it is concerning that they were so far apart that they just cut off negotiations hours before the deadline.