Impeachment

[3rdside]

I try to avoid TDS but it's hard to disagree with Bill Maher, esp if this trial amounts to nothing. More power to the head is as more power to the head does..

[virtual9mm]

The true barometer will be November.

I thought that the HK democrats would lose the recent district council elections but they won in a landslide. Wonder if something like that is also possible in the US.

[virtual9mm]

I try to avoid TDS but it's hard to disagree with Bill Maher, esp if this trial amounts to nothing. More power to the head is as more power to the head does..

He will look for excuses not to leave and will contest a loss hard-core.

[3rdside]

The true barometer will be November.

I thought that the HK democrats would lose the recent district council elections but they won in a landslide. Wonder if something like that is also possible in the US.

Here's hoping. And the protesters are still going 7 months later, which has lead to open discussion of extending the 50yr one country / two systems structure by another 50 years. I grew up there for 19 years ('77-'97) I think I mentioned, so have a huge soft spot for the place.

Protesting is the only way out if Trump refuses to leave (but a slightly dangerous one with the armed 'patriots' on Trump's side, which seems a deliberate tactic by Trump to rile them up, as Maher alludes to).

And I wasn't insinuating anyone here had TDS, just talking my own thoughts .. Part of me can't believe he'd get away with being so brazen, with the 'checks and balances' that exist, the other part believes he's going all the way / world domination / dictatorship as it's that or jail if he loses.

Sadly the latter isn't a non-zero probability I don't think (in which case, does TDS actually even exist as a concept? Man I want this guy out of power so I don't have to waste more time thinking about this stuff..).

[Mori Chu]

That Maher clip is right on. Trump isn't going to transfer power graciously if he loses. He will challenge the result and refuse to accept it. The Secret Service is supposed to step in if the ex potus won't leave. But Trump has spent years gutting them and installing his own cronies there. What are we to do if they won't do their duty? Would the military leadership do something? Most of the top people there are Trump loyalists now. Who would seriously stand up to him and force him out? Who would have power behind them to do so?

[3rdside]

That Maher clip is right on. Trump isn't going to transfer power graciously if he loses. He will challenge the result and refuse to accept it. The Secret Service is supposed to step in if the ex potus won't leave. But Trump has spent years gutting them and installing his own cronies there. What are we to do if they won't do their duty? Would the military leadership do something? Most of the top people there are Trump loyalists now. Who would seriously stand up to him and force him out? Who would have power behind them to do so?

Only people power I guess, like what happened in South Korea.

(And to clarify that my point about non-zero probabilities was perfectly incorrect - it's either a non-zero probability, or isn't a zero-probability, not what I wrote).

[3rdside]

I do look at the Bolton situation and think there's a good chance it doesn't come to this - if the R's refuse witnesses, by my non-legal reckoning they'd surely be opening themselves to Obstruction law suits after the event?

[Cap]

I do look at the Bolton situation and think there's a good chance it doesn't come to this - if the R's refuse witnesses, by my non-legal reckoning they'd surely be opening themselves to Obstruction law suits after the event?

Nope. Impeachment is ultimately a political process, not a judicial one, even if it has some of the trappings of court proceedings. The courts would call it a “political question” and not get involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political ... mpeachment

[3rdside]

I do look at the Bolton situation and think there's a good chance it doesn't come to this - if the R's refuse witnesses, by my non-legal reckoning they'd surely be opening themselves to Obstruction law suits after the event?

Nope. Impeachment is ultimately a political process, not a judicial one, even if it has some of the trappings of court proceedings. The courts would call it a “political question” and not get involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political ... mpeachment

Thanks and wow. Barring this 'trial' or a stock market crash I can't see him not getting re-elected, so a lot riding on it.

Fox News out in full force, of course:

[Mori Chu]

After Bolton's revelations this weekend and his willingness to testify to direct knowledge of the quid-pro-quo, the Senators would be insane not to vote for witnesses and evidence.

[3rdside]

Sanity and the Republican party departed ways a long time ago..

[ShelC]

What's keeping Bolton from putting his book out, cashing in and just walking away. The info would be out there, he wouldn't testify and draw the ire of Trump or Rs and Dems wouldn't be able to use what he wrote.

[Nodack]

I’m pretty sure Trump isn’t happy about Bolton calling the scheme a drug deal, writing a tell all book implicating Trump and announcing he is willing to testify. Romney and a few other Republicans are showing signs they would like to hear from Bolton and others. I am not sure that Dems wouldn’t be able to use what he writes in his book as evidence. The Republicans are using Russian propaganda as their evidence.

[Indy]

What's keeping Bolton from putting his book out, cashing in and just walking away. The info would be out there, he wouldn't testify and draw the ire of Trump or Rs and Dems wouldn't be able to use what he wrote.

It isn't done and isn't ready to print. So releasing it now would probably not get the publisher the amount they projected/planned for. Also, it is just a book, not a testimony. So it could be full of lies and not break any laws, unlike testifying.

[Nodack]

The Republicans have turned it into the Biden impeachment trial.

[Indy]

If someone is arguing that there is nothing to see here, and all the smoke is just smoke, the only strategy is to deflect, deflect, deflect. I am completely fine with an investigation into whether or not Joe Biden violated his oath of office while he was VPOTUS. But that has nothing to do with whether or not Trump committed the acts described in the articles of impeachment.

[Nodack]

A kink in the armor. Mitch McConnell took a vote to squash having witnesses and he didn’t have the votes. Too many Republicans want to see witnesses or at least Bolton’s testimony.

[Nodack]

If someone is arguing that there is nothing to see here, and all the smoke is just smoke, the only strategy is to deflect, deflect, deflect. I am completely fine with an investigation into whether or not Joe Biden violated his oath of office while he was VPOTUS. But that has nothing to do with whether or not Trump committed the acts described in the articles of impeachment.

I think they should investigate the Bidens but, this isn’t a Biden trial it’s a Trump trial. The Bidens could be axe murdering pedophile’s who have committed crimes against humanity and it won’t make Trump any less guilty.

[Indy]

agreed. I meant a separate investigation, since they have nothing to do with each other.

[Nodack]

Exactly.