Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:58 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:42 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:24 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:13 am

I meant that the response is always, "BUT can he do it consistently, for more than a __-game stretch? For a whole season?"

Well that has always been an issue with Ayton. Mikal hasn’t generally had a consistency issue. He hasn’t always consistently provided offense, but we weren’t asking him too. We’ve only been asking him to be a primary offensive weapon since Booker has been out…so 20ish games. He’s been pretty dang consistent(though the shooting took a little bit to get going).

You posted his last 14 games. But in the 17 games before that, he averaged 14.5 points on 36.1% FG. In the 10 games before the last 14, when Booker was out (starting Dec. 19), he averaged 13.1 points on 36.8% FG.

That’s why I posted the last 14 games…he took on a new responsibility and struggled at first, but now has a 14 game sample size of consistently producing. I think his early struggles are understandable.

I’d give Ayton the benefit of the doubt if he was taking on a new role as well.

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

Lol. He averages under 18 ppg. I guess it’s #1 by a nose. Also by default.

carey wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:55 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

Lol. He averages under 18 ppg. I guess it’s #1 by a nose. Also by default.

Good thing he's matching what Booker was producing, point for point.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:13 pm

carey wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:55 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

Lol. He averages under 18 ppg. I guess it’s #1 by a nose. Also by default.

Good thing he's matching what Booker was producing, point for point.

Booker: 20.4 FGA
Ayton: 13.5 FGA

From 2017:
“Phoenix, of course, hired James Jones this offseason. He’s been inside that locker room. He’s seen Kyrie Irving — I think I reported this on SportsCenter this week — he saw Kyrie Irving in the playoffs this year — in between the first round when they beat Indiana and the second round when they played Toronto — go consecutive days without speaking to a teammate at practice. On that stage. It’s one thing to say people go through ups and downs during the regular season. But when you get to the playoffs, when the main thing is the main thing, and we’re brothers and pulling together to get this thing done, even at that level there were still things that made him sullen or reclusive from his teammates. I’m not so sure if Phoenix would be interested in that type of deal.”
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/08/kyrie- ... ayoffs-nba

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:58 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:42 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:24 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:13 am

I meant that the response is always, "BUT can he do it consistently, for more than a __-game stretch? For a whole season?"

Well that has always been an issue with Ayton. Mikal hasn’t generally had a consistency issue. He hasn’t always consistently provided offense, but we weren’t asking him too. We’ve only been asking him to be a primary offensive weapon since Booker has been out…so 20ish games. He’s been pretty dang consistent(though the shooting took a little bit to get going).

You posted his last 14 games. But in the 17 games before that, he averaged 14.5 points on 36.1% FG. In the 10 games before the last 14, when Booker was out (starting Dec. 19), he averaged 13.1 points on 36.8% FG.

That’s why I posted the last 14 games…he took on a new responsibility and struggled at first, but now has a 14 game sample size of consistently producing. I think his early struggles are understandable.

I’d give Ayton the benefit of the doubt if he was taking on a new role as well.

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

He’s not the #1 scorer on the team

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:25 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:58 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:42 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:24 am

Well that has always been an issue with Ayton. Mikal hasn’t generally had a consistency issue. He hasn’t always consistently provided offense, but we weren’t asking him too. We’ve only been asking him to be a primary offensive weapon since Booker has been out…so 20ish games. He’s been pretty dang consistent(though the shooting took a little bit to get going).

You posted his last 14 games. But in the 17 games before that, he averaged 14.5 points on 36.1% FG. In the 10 games before the last 14, when Booker was out (starting Dec. 19), he averaged 13.1 points on 36.8% FG.

That’s why I posted the last 14 games…he took on a new responsibility and struggled at first, but now has a 14 game sample size of consistently producing. I think his early struggles are understandable.

I’d give Ayton the benefit of the doubt if he was taking on a new role as well.

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

He’s not the #1 scorer on the team

In the 19 games Ayton has played since Booker went down:

Ayton: 18.7 PPG
Bridges: 17.8 PPG

For Ayton, It's really as simple as not being able to create his own offense, thats why he's not the #1. He's very efficient when he gets the ball in his spots, but that still relies on others.

If Ayton would just dunk the fucking basketball instead of the weak layup shit near the rim. NOBODY fears Ayton. He's got the body of David Robinson with the aggressiveness of Boris Diaw.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:31 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:25 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:58 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:42 am

You posted his last 14 games. But in the 17 games before that, he averaged 14.5 points on 36.1% FG. In the 10 games before the last 14, when Booker was out (starting Dec. 19), he averaged 13.1 points on 36.8% FG.

That’s why I posted the last 14 games…he took on a new responsibility and struggled at first, but now has a 14 game sample size of consistently producing. I think his early struggles are understandable.

I’d give Ayton the benefit of the doubt if he was taking on a new role as well.

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

He’s not the #1 scorer on the team

In the 19 games Ayton has played since Booker went down:

Ayton: 18.7 PPG
Bridges: 17.8 PPG

Here’s what I came up with…

Ayton since Dec. 11th when Booker originally got hurt

21 games
18.5 points
10.6 rebounds
2.1 assists
.4 steals
.5 blocks
2.1 TO
.551 TS%

Mikal:

28 games
18.6 points
3.6 rebounds
4.0 assists
1.2 steals
.8 blocks
1.6 TO
.553 TS%

Who’s doing a better job being the #1 option? Keep in mind Mikal also kept playing through injury while Ayton sat out when he was hurt.

Also Ayton’s role didn’t change, he really didn’t seem to take on any added responsibility. Mikal clearly had a very apparent role change as the lead ball handler.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:56 am

Last 14 games for Mikal:

22/4/5 with 1.3 stl, .6 blk and 1.6 TO

He’s shooting 49/38/92 which is a .591 TS%

Ayton over the same stretch:

9 games

18/11/3 with .2 stl, .7 blk and 1.7 TO

Shooting 49/0/66 for a .512 TS%

Didn’t realize Ayton’s TS% is so bad.

carey wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:48 pm

Didn’t realize Ayton’s TS% is so bad.

He had a couple of massive stinkers recently.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:39 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:31 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:25 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:58 am

That’s why I posted the last 14 games…he took on a new responsibility and struggled at first, but now has a 14 game sample size of consistently producing. I think his early struggles are understandable.

I’d give Ayton the benefit of the doubt if he was taking on a new role as well.

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

He’s not the #1 scorer on the team

In the 19 games Ayton has played since Booker went down:

Ayton: 18.7 PPG
Bridges: 17.8 PPG

Here’s what I came up with…

Ayton since Dec. 11th when Booker originally got hurt

21 games
18.5 points
10.6 rebounds
2.1 assists
.4 steals
.5 blocks
2.1 TO
.551 TS%

Mikal:

28 games
18.6 points
3.6 rebounds
4.0 assists
1.2 steals
.8 blocks
1.6 TO
.553 TS%

Who’s doing a better job being the #1 option? Keep in mind Mikal also kept playing through injury while Ayton sat out when he was hurt.

Also Ayton’s role didn’t change, he really didn’t seem to take on any added responsibility. Mikal clearly had a very apparent role change as the lead ball handler.

You're including the games Ayton missed? Of course Bridges was going to be the top scorer lol. You're also including Dec. 13 where Ayton scored 5 points because he sprained his ankle early in the game.

I was starting Dec. 19 which is when Booker has been out every single game (if you don't count the 4:20 on Christmas). And if Mikal was healthy enough to play, you can't use the injury excuse--he claimed it wasn't affecting him.

Ayton also has the most FGA and the most FGA+FTA since Booker went out. Defenses have been double- and triple-teaming him and swarming him in the paint. How is that not a new role that he has to adjust to?

I don’t really want to continue this argument…every excuse in the world for Ayton but none for anyone else. I know what I’ve seen on the court. Mikal has led us without Booker here, not Ayton.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:08 pm

I don’t really want to continue this argument…every excuse in the world for Ayton but none for anyone else. I know what I’ve seen on the court. Mikal has led us without Booker here, not Ayton.

It's better for your sanity this way.

It’s the same argument every freaking thread. Will it ever end?

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:08 pm

I don’t really want to continue this argument…every excuse in the world for Ayton but none for anyone else. I know what I’ve seen on the court. Mikal has led us without Booker here, not Ayton.

That wasn't even the argument.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:16 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:13 pm

carey wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:55 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

Lol. He averages under 18 ppg. I guess it’s #1 by a nose. Also by default.

Good thing he's matching what Booker was producing, point for point.

Booker: 20.4 FGA
Ayton: 13.5 FGA

This got me to wondering. What could we expect in the real world if Ayton did get as many FGA as Booker does?

It turns out that in the 8 games where Ayton has had between 19 and 22 FGA this season (which just happens to average exactly 20.4 FGA in those games), Ayton has averaged 25.6 ppg. Pretty close to Booker's output, even with Booker producing more FTA and 3-pointers.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:13 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:16 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:13 pm

carey wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:55 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:40 pm

Being the #1 scorer on the team and having defenses keying on him is not a new role??

Lol. He averages under 18 ppg. I guess it’s #1 by a nose. Also by default.

Good thing he's matching what Booker was producing, point for point.

Booker: 20.4 FGA
Ayton: 13.5 FGA

This got me to wondering. What could we expect in the real world if Ayton did get as many FGA as Booker does?

It turns out that in the 8 games where Ayton has had between 19 and 22 FGA this season (which just happens to average exactly 20.4 FGA in those games), Ayton has averaged 25.6 ppg. Pretty close to Booker's output, even with Booker producing more FTA and 3-pointers.

Ayton > or = Booker…. Got it….