OFFENSE RANKING (50% of a players value) 12th in points 15th in assists 239th in shooting percentage 307th in 3pt percentage 107th offensive rating 289th clutch rating
(33%, 18% 3pt. 7 career game winning shots- very low for a team's #1 option, go-to player over 11 seasons)
522th (of 568) DEFENSE RANKING (50% of a players value)
Top 10 NBA salary (Booker will make more than Kevin Durant next season though Durant has better stats in all of the above except for assists.) An expected 70 million Booker deal is expected this year. Currently, the top NBA salary is 59 million.
Team Performance:
Worst Suns season several times. Best Suns season + NBA Finals + among top defensive team and clutch team with Chris Paul for 2 seasons. Back to among worst defensive and clutch team without Chris Paul. 7 coaches replaced over 10 seasons. Consistent team chemistry/motivation/meltdown problems though the team has been completely turned over and built around Booker many times.
THAT'S JUST THE FACTS. The stats are from NBA.com. Please do correct me if i misread anything.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 12:04 pm
by Kryptonic
Interesting….. my only argument would be that a players values aren’t directly 50% offense and 50% defense. Some players are just poor defenders but stellar offensively.
Im not a hater, but just feel he’s the best bet to rebuilding the team for the future in the assets he’d bring back.
Also…. sidery is a bot, we’ve told you this. jk
Hey, I'm the one that started the Sidery bot rumors! And I know you're not a hater and I get it. Back in the day, I didn't like the Larry Nance trade when it happened but I ended up loving the results. This could be similar if it were to happen. If he IS still here, I do hope he gets back to the aggressive Book we all (most of us) know and love.
Interesting….. my only argument would be that a players values aren’t directly 50% offense and 50% defense. Some players are just poor defenders but stellar offensively.
i'm not saying players are 50/50. I'm saying the value of a player or team's defense is as valuable as their offense, but ignored by fans. In fact, it can be successfully argued that defense is more important than offense in regards to winning.
Suns fans have been so conditioned and manipulated by the local media that defensive stats are rarely mentioned and the focus of the league is and has always been focused on flashy scorers.
the propaganda is so effective that, immediately following Booker's revealing facts/stats, we have an alleged "Suns fan through and through" celebrating a commitment to lock him into the NBA's highest salary ever!
this is the state of today's "cult of personality" culture. Manipulation, smoke and mirrors and awful, awful results for fans, consumers, voters, etc..
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 1:18 pm
by 1tinsoldier
and it isn't just Booker's defense that's a drag on the team (worst rated defender in Sun's history). His offense alone is an overall negative.
THE SUNS SHOOT BETTER AS A TEAM THAN BOOKER (48% to 45%)
-- so they're better off when he doesn't shoot. It does help teammates when he's double-teamed. But we saw that in the 8 straight blowouts to end our playoff hopes, our opponents started single-coverage on him because Booker focusing on scoring was to their advantage.
the propaganda is so effective that, immediately following Booker's revealing facts/stats, we have an alleged "Suns fan through and through" celebrating a commitment to lock him into the NBA's highest salary ever!
that means that Booker will be making about $25,000 per on-court minute to lead the Suns.
and it's Suns fans and the local community will be paying that bill (tickets, merchandise, stadiums, cable bills, etc.. for a team that will be extending it's 0 titles in 57+ seasons
celebrate?
or, indeed, "read it and weep" Suns fans
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 2:17 pm
by Mori Chu
Hey 1tin, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and you are not in any way required to like or dislike any particular Suns player. And, for example, I think your post with all the red stats on Book is interesting and informative; it helps highlight some of the flaws in his game and raises points that can be discussed with others.
But I don't appreciate talk like this:
the propaganda is so effective that, immediately following Booker's revealing facts/stats, we have an alleged "Suns fan through and through" celebrating a commitment to lock him into the NBA's highest salary ever!
this is the state of today's "cult of personality" culture. Manipulation, smoke and mirrors and awful, awful results for fans, consumers, voters, etc..
The main point of this site is to provide a kind and respectful place for a bunch of friends who are Suns-loving weirdos to talk about their favorite team and the league as a whole. We don't always agree, but we should try to keep it civil and respectful.
Telling people who disagree with you that they are brainwashed by propaganda, or in a cult, etc., is condescending and insulting. We can talk about this topic and air our different views without talking trash to each other. My minimum requirement for participation here is to give your fellow members the default assumption that they are intelligent and informed enough to think for themselves and form their own opinions, even if those opinions differ from your own.
If this thread continues to have the kind of tone quoted above, I will lock it.
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 2:20 pm
by TOO
1tinfoilhatsoldier.
Just like the Ayton discourse, this is tired already.
Interesting….. my only argument would be that a players values aren’t directly 50% offense and 50% defense. Some players are just poor defenders but stellar offensively.
i'm not saying players are 50/50. I'm saying the value of a player or team's defense is as valuable as their offense, but ignored by fans. In fact, it can be successfully argued that defense is more important than offense in regards to winning.
Suns fans have been so conditioned and manipulated by the local media that defensive stats are rarely mentioned and the focus of the league is and has always been focused on flashy scorers.
the propaganda is so effective that, immediately following Booker's revealing facts/stats, we have an alleged "Suns fan through and through" celebrating a commitment to lock him into the NBA's highest salary ever!
this is the state of today's "cult of personality" culture. Manipulation, smoke and mirrors and awful, awful results for fans, consumers, voters, etc..
Believe it or not, I still read your posts. And I celebrated? No. You read into it. I was just having fun rubbing it in. Totally different. If we're not having fun here, why be here? It is what it is no matter how much you cry about it. You could write a million words and you're not going to change anything or many, if anybody's current opinion on the matter.
My take on it (if you're really interested)? I'm just going to hope for the best and see if Ishbia can recover from his brash mistakes. I believe it's possible to build a winner around Booker and this contract. And I do love that Booker loves it here and wants to be here and turn it around and win our first ever NBA championship and that he respects his predecessors here. Booker came so close once, I'd love to see it again.
the propaganda is so effective that, immediately following Booker's revealing facts/stats, we have an alleged "Suns fan through and through" celebrating a commitment to lock him into the NBA's highest salary ever!
that means that Booker will be making about $25,000 per on-court minute to lead the Suns.
and it's Suns fans and the local community will be paying that bill (tickets, merchandise, stadiums, cable bills, etc.. for a team that will be extending it's 0 titles in 57+ seasons
celebrate?
or, indeed, "read it and weep" Suns fans
how about you or any other fanboy commenting on the facts/stats instead of worrying about me?
or
do you take your bouncing ball heroes so serious that it makes you too nervous to read the facts and critique them?!
I'm just going to hope for the best... And I do love that Booker loves it here and wants to be here
imo, you're lying to me and yourself
you know Booker knows he stands to lose up to 100 million dollars (over 4 years) by moving to another team that doesn't value his home-grown, built-in fan base and he'd lose his PR hype team with Arizona Sports TV & radio.
and you know that if the approach to every move the team makes or might/should make deserves a "hope for the best" instead of our critique you must know this forum needn't exist and the 300+ hours you waste following the team and extra hours you waste on this forum is a pitiful waste of our lives
(let me try the deep breathe thing. innnnnnn ---- ouuuuuuuut. Nope, still feel the same about Booker Ball another 4 to 12 years!)
Re: Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:39 pm
by Kryptonic
There’s an old saying…. You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
There’s an old saying…. You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
i'm not trying to catch flies. i'm trying to swat them away with reason.
as a former teacher i'm compelled to ask people to be critical thinkers
-- to think for themselves rather than be mislead by emotional irrationality.
and, yes, venting serves a useful purpose too
i should be watching Suns playoff games this month
and still hope to be next year if the right moves are made
if Ishbia is smarter than we suspect, he's just positioning Booker for better trade value
otherwise, as Stephen A Smith just said "Ishbia is on his way to being the worst owner in NBA history"
jk
Hey, I'm the one that started the Sidery bot rumors! And I know you're not a hater and I get it. Back in the day, I didn't like the Larry Nance trade when it happened but I ended up loving the results. This could be similar if it were to happen. If he IS still here, I do hope he gets back to the aggressive Book we all (most of us) know and love.