Phx-Suns.Net

Seriously, INF. Would you be alright with a draft and stash? It's worked out pretty well for the Spurs over the years.

Superbone wrote:Seriously, INF. Would you be alright with a draft and stash? It's worked out pretty well for the Spurs over the years.

Draft & stash works super for teams that already have great assets. You have Duncan you can do that stuff. We... don't have Duncan. It's not a terrible idea if we keep all 3 picks, I just don't want a Vujanic situation on our hands either. Make sure it's a guy that wants to come over in a year or two.

Superbone wrote:Seriously, INF. Would you be alright with a draft and stash? It's worked out pretty well for the Spurs over the years.

Only if that's the best prospect available with the pick.

I hate that avoiding bringing in a certain number of rookies has any influence on the decision-making going into one of the best drafts in awhile.

I wish that it was just as simple getting the best talent available. The Suns have a great coaching staff, a substantial player development department, AND they now have their own D-League affiliate. It is absolutely idiotic to limit the extent to which the team uses the resources IT ALREADY HAS.

I would understand the front office approach if this team was contending. But it's not. Ultimately, it was a non-playoff team, regardless of how many wins it earned. There is still a significant talent deficit on this roster.

Superbone wrote:

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:Markel Brown fits what INF would want to a tee. I assume he'd want a smaller G to defend the CP3s and Lawsons out there. Bigger guys generally just cant stick small guys.

OK, that makes some sense. IOW, you'd want to pair with Dragic a great shooter who could defend opposing PGs well.

haha, that could have been oladipo.

Superbone wrote:Seriously, INF. Would you be alright with a draft and stash? It's worked out pretty well for the Spurs over the years.

if the suns draft an american, where would you stash him? in china?

I think you are overlooking Goran's troubles handling the ball when things get hot. Sometimes he has to face double teams or a certain type of defender and he'll pick up his dribble too soon. In my opinion he needs someone with real PG handles, plus relevant perimeter defense.

I want Stauskas for the catch and shoot role. And I want TJ Warren at SF, period (almost). I'd be more than happy if those were our #14 and #18 picks.

I know next to nothing about the prospects coming out this year. So let me ask -- how much would you be willing to give up for a Kevin Love who cannot extend his contract per league rules?

I'd offer Markieff (who'd be out of a position), Marcus, the T-Wolves pick and the Pacers pick this year. Looking at the history of teams that have depleted their rosters for a star, you seem to have more Carmelo to NY results than Harden to Houston results. I would rather trade the assets up for a higher pick this year, save cap space for next year and try to grab Love next summer.

The long and short of it is that Minny has no leverage, and I am looking at these huge packages being thrown around for Love as something unreasonable. Better not to have Love at that price. Am I crazy?

virtual9mm wrote:I know next to nothing about the prospects coming out this year. So let me ask -- how much would you be willing to give up for a Kevin Love who cannot extend his contract per league rules?

I'd offer Markieff (who'd be out of a position), Marcus, the T-Wolves pick and the Pacers pick this year. Looking at the history of teams that have depleted their rosters for a star, you seem to have more Carmelo to NY results than Harden to Houston results. I would rather trade the assets up for a higher pick this year, save cap space for next year and try to grab Love next summer.

The long and short of it is that Minny has no leverage, and I am looking at these huge packages being thrown around for Love as something unreasonable. Better not to have Love at that price. Am I crazy?

I don't think you're crazy. I want Love as much as the next guy. <Insert joke here> But there is a tipping point where it's not worth it if you have to give up too much.

Superbone wrote:

INFORMER wrote:But that probably violates the mandate against bringing in 3 rookies, so that won't happen.

So, it's become a mandate now?

Well, maybe mandate isn't too strong of a word. Just watched a Coro interview where he emphatically states we will NOT be bringing in three rookies.

Ring_Wanted wrote:I think you are overlooking Goran's troubles handling the ball when things get hot. Sometimes he has to face double teams or a certain type of defender and he'll pick up his dribble too soon. In my opinion he needs someone with real PG handles, plus relevant perimeter defense.

I think you're overstating the issue.

virtual9mm wrote: Am I crazy?

You are. And not for being cautious and not wanting to deplete the team. That's wise. But a package of the Morris Twins, the Indy pick, and a pick that will eventually become two second rounders is a ridiculous offer to make Minnesota.

I think what you have concentrate on is not necessarily how much is included in the deal but rather what will be left after you make the deal. I think as long as you are left with Bledsoe and Dragic and a few other pieces, you can pull the trigger.

Superbone wrote:

Superbone wrote:

INFORMER wrote:But that probably violates the mandate against bringing in 3 rookies, so that won't happen.

So, it's become a mandate now?

Well, maybe mandate isn't too strong of a word. Just watched a Coro interview where he emphatically states we will NOT be bringing in three rookies.

2004 all over again. Freaking ridiculous. As much as fans want to cry about bad luck and David Stern and injuries, this franchise has a long history of not getting out of its own way and Ryan McDonough appears intent on extending that legacy. I freaking hate this.

INFORMER wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:I think you are overlooking Goran's troubles handling the ball when things get hot. Sometimes he has to face double teams or a certain type of defender and he'll pick up his dribble too soon. In my opinion he needs someone with real PG handles, plus relevant perimeter defense.

I think you're overstating the issue.

I agree and I continue to see improvement in that area from him. I thought he handled the ball a lot better this year than the year before.

INFORMER wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Superbone wrote:

INFORMER wrote:But that probably violates the mandate against bringing in 3 rookies, so that won't happen.

So, it's become a mandate now?

Well, maybe mandate isn't too strong of a word. Just watched a Coro interview where he emphatically states we will NOT be bringing in three rookies.

2004 all over again. Freaking ridiculous. As much as fans want to cry about bad luck and David Stern and injuries, this franchise has a long history of not getting out of its own way and Ryan McDonough appears intent on extending that legacy. I freaking hate this.

I'm taking a wait and see approach. I want to see how he handles the draft and the draft picks. I'm definitely not married to bringing in three rookies. If he can package the picks to move up and grab somebody he really wants, is that so bad?

Superbone wrote: I'm taking a wait and see approach. I want to see how he handles the draft and the draft picks. I'm definitely not married to bringing in three rookies. If he can package the picks to move up and grab somebody he really wants, is that so bad?

You just don't get it, 'bone. It's not that I have to see three rookies on the Suns roster. It's that I don't want management to be motivated by a desire to avoid bringing in three rookies. Because if that is influencing their decision-making, then they aren't getting the most out of their resources, and getting the most and best talent isn't their top priority. That's inexcusable.

If they package picks to get Aaron Gordon or Noah Vonleh or Dante Exum, that's great value, and I'd have no problem with it. That's getting the most out of your picks. But if they package 14 and 18 for say pick 10, that's terrible value, because there isn't a significant difference between drafting at 10 and drafting at 14.

virtual9mm wrote:I know next to nothing about the prospects coming out this year. So let me ask -- how much would you be willing to give up for a Kevin Love who cannot extend his contract per league rules?

I'd offer Markieff (who'd be out of a position), Marcus, the T-Wolves pick and the Pacers pick this year. Looking at the history of teams that have depleted their rosters for a star, you seem to have more Carmelo to NY results than Harden to Houston results. I would rather trade the assets up for a higher pick this year, save cap space for next year and try to grab Love next summer.

The long and short of it is that Minny has no leverage, and I am looking at these huge packages being thrown around for Love as something unreasonable. Better not to have Love at that price. Am I crazy?

Frye, Green our #14 and returning their pick owed us from the Wesley Johnson deal. Any more & they can kiss off.

The long and short of it is that Minny has no leverage, and I am looking at these huge packages being thrown around for Love as something unreasonable. Better not to have Love at that price. Am I crazy?

Frye, Green our #14 and returning their pick owed us from the Wesley Johnson deal. Any more & they can kiss off.

I know Minny's clock is running and they will have to trade him, so in that sense, they don't have infinite leverage. But tons of teams want to trade for Kevin Love, so in that regard, they has plenty of leverage. They don't have to take our substandard hypothetical offer if they have a better one on the table. And I guarantee you that several teams can and will make better offers than the ones quoted above.

Basically if you want Kevin Love to be a Sun, you have to offer them pretty much anything they want from our current assets other than Dragic and maybe Bledsoe. It's fine if you don't want to do that, but that's the sort of thinking it's going to take to come up with a deal they'd take.

You also have to think about it from their perspective a bit. Why in the world would they want Channing Frye or Gerald Green? This trade constitutes a blow-up, a rebuild, for them. They don't want veterans. They want picks, young players, and flexibility.

INFORMER wrote:You just don't get it, 'bone.

OK, oh great one.

INFORMER wrote: If they package picks to get Aaron Gordon or Noah Vonleh or Dante Exum, that's great value, and I'd have no problem with it. That's getting the most out of your picks. But if they package 14 and 18 for say pick 10, that's terrible value, because there isn't a significant difference between drafting at 10 and drafting at 14.

So, maybe the former is the plan. Why don't you see what happens before you freak out? The picks could also be packaged to get a known quantity like how Philly traded Jrue Holiday last year for picks.

Mori Chu wrote:

The long and short of it is that Minny has no leverage, and I am looking at these huge packages being thrown around for Love as something unreasonable. Better not to have Love at that price. Am I crazy?

Frye, Green our #14 and returning their pick owed us from the Wesley Johnson deal. Any more & they can kiss off.

I know Minny's clock is running and they will have to trade him, so in that sense, they don't have infinite leverage. But tons of teams want to trade for Kevin Love, so in that regard, they has plenty of leverage. They don't have to take our substandard hypothetical offer if they have a better one on the table. And I guarantee you that several teams can and will make better offers than the ones quoted above.

Basically if you want Kevin Love to be a Sun, you have to offer them pretty much anything they want from our current assets other than Dragic and maybe Bledsoe. It's fine if you don't want to do that, but that's the sort of thinking it's going to take to come up with a deal they'd take.

You also have to think about it from their perspective a bit. Why in the world would they want Channing Frye or Gerald Green? This trade constitutes a blow-up, a rebuild, for them. They don't want veterans. They want picks, young players, and flexibility.

First off, there's no guarantee Love will re-sign.

Second, I don't think he's worth more due to the fact that he doesn't really make a team better. Big numbers don't always = great player.

Third, I couldn't care less if we trade for him or not. Personally, I think we're better off trying to move up in the draft to snag one of Vonleh or Gordon.

So, if they wouldn't take my offer, no skin off of my ass - the impact is negligible.

I always felt getting Kevin Love with our current assets was pipe dream and something that could only be done in a NBA 2k game with trade override on.