Phx-Suns.Net

I guess that takes Detroit off the table as a potential landing spot for Ayton!

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 9:31 pm

Kind of an optimistic overpay, dontcha think?

It's Detroit. They don't have a choice if that want to attract a decent coach.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:47 am

The Suns had a culture on and off the court that was unique and an advantage over their opponent. A lot of that left with trading of the twins. It's just about gone with the firing of Monty, but even if he had been retained, it still wouldn't have been enough.

There were basketball factors that kept that culture from being enough, but Jones never really addressed any of them.

The current team is very different. It's about the brilliance of Book and Durant, and trying to surround with a enough talent to win it all while having very few resources. I'm not sure how valuable Monty is in that type of team building.

Moreover, I don't know if James Jones is an asset in that type of building. Jones isn't going to run things like Miami or Toronto, looking for undrafted free agents, using the g league, maximizing untapped potential, developing players, etc. You're not going to draft a Fred VanVleet and develop him; you're not going to find a Gabe Vincent or Max Strus. Jones doesn't have the patience or foresight to pull that stuff off.

Spot on. I think we began to see cracks in that culture following Monty's bust up with Ayton in game 7 of the Mavs series and the issue with Crowder over the summer that seemed to come out of nowhere. What had looked like a really tight group that would run through walls for each other had started to fray and I don't think Monty was ever able to galvanise them in the same way he had previously. Moving the twins was the final nail in the coffin

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pm

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:05 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:47 am

The Suns had a culture on and off the court that was unique and an advantage over their opponent. A lot of that left with trading of the twins. It's just about gone with the firing of Monty, but even if he had been retained, it still wouldn't have been enough.

There were basketball factors that kept that culture from being enough, but Jones never really addressed any of them.

The current team is very different. It's about the brilliance of Book and Durant, and trying to surround with a enough talent to win it all while having very few resources. I'm not sure how valuable Monty is in that type of team building.

Moreover, I don't know if James Jones is an asset in that type of building. Jones isn't going to run things like Miami or Toronto, looking for undrafted free agents, using the g league, maximizing untapped potential, developing players, etc. You're not going to draft a Fred VanVleet and develop him; you're not going to find a Gabe Vincent or Max Strus. Jones doesn't have the patience or foresight to pull that stuff off.

Spot on. I think we began to see cracks in that culture following Monty's bust up with Ayton in game 7 of the Mavs series and the issue with Crowder over the summer that seemed to come out of nowhere. What had looked like a really tight group that would run through walls for each other had started to fray and I don't think Monty was ever able to galvanise them in the same way he had previously. Moving the twins was the final nail in the coffin

It frayed earlier, definitely earlier in the Dallas collapse. Something happened towards the end of the regular season.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:30 am

Increasingly I'm starting to think that it was foolish to fire Monty Williams. I was upset about how the playoffs went, and I think Monty could have done better, but I'm just not a believer in Kevin Young. We'll have to wait and see.

Proven ability to turn around a team. He'll earn a paycheck. Maybe not THAT one. Wish him luck!

He'll be great for Detroit and is better for them now than the Suns. Whether whoever we get will be better for us now than Monty would have been is the very key question.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:49 pm

I guess that takes Detroit off the table as a potential landing spot for Ayton!

Landry, on the other hand. Welcome to East Lansing!

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:10 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:49 pm

I guess that takes Detroit off the table as a potential landing spot for Ayton!

Landry, on the other hand. Welcome to East Lansing!

Has it been confirmed yet whether Monty's daughter is moving to Detroit?

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pm

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pm

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

Are you too drunk to remember the other two?

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pm

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu May 25, 2023 1:51 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Thu May 25, 2023 1:38 pm

If a fired coach like Monty who had years left on his contract takes a new job, does he get both paychecks? Or does the old contract offset the new one?

Example: Suppose Monty was under contract for 2023-24 by the Suns for $5m. Then he signs a new contract with the Pistons for $8m. Which of the following is true? (a) Monty gets both paychecks, for a total of $13m for 2023-24. (b) Monty gets $8m total, $5m of which is paid by the Suns and $3m of which is paid by the Pistons?

I don't think there's a scenario where the Suns would be paying a portion of his new salary (b). I don't know if this is the norm in the NBA, but sometimes a contract will have a clause that if a coach has remaining years but gets a new job, then they would only have to pay that coach the difference in salaries (meaning, if the new contract is for less money it would offset what the old team owes). So, in that case, the $8M would come from the Pistons and the Suns would not have to pay anything. If the Pistons were offering $4M, then the Suns would owe $1M in salary.

(By the way, it's actually $7M for the next three years that the Suns owe Williams.)

And now we know the answer, it turns out that yes Monty did have the offsetting clause in his contract:

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:23 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pm

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

Are you too drunk to remember the other two?

I’m not really sure how you can consider the Milwaukee loss a flameout. It sucked to lose 4 straight, but we were in every game. They fought hard.

The Dallas one was the real embarrassing one. We lost to a lesser team and didn’t bother to even show up to a few games.

Denver is somewhere in between. I just think we ran out of players. I didn’t like game 6 obviously, but looking back I’ve softened on that loss. Denver was just a better team. Booker went insane and won us 2 games by himself basically(KD did help a bit) and then Booker came back to earth and we had no chance.

The way we lost in game 6 matters too, but almost our entire deficit can be explained by a bad 5 minute stretch where we got outscored 25-2. Took a 24-21 lead and turned it into a 46-26 deficit. I’d blame Monty for that more if he had better options. It’s not completely his fault he had to play Biyombo, Ross, etc.

Combine that with the fact that Denver clearly looks like the best team and I can forgive it a little. Don’t like the way we lost, but again, it’s not as bad as it seems when you look closely and we were outmatched anyways.

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:29 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 7:48 pm

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

For the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:47 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:29 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 10:06 pm

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

For the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.

Lost 4 straight games, close or not, that's a whimper to me.

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:00 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:47 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:29 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:34 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed May 31, 2023 11:22 pm

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

For the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.

Lost 4 straight games, close or not, that's a whimper to me.

OK, but that's not the definition of the word. Agree to disagree. With everyone.

Going up 2-0 and then losing 4 straight is very much on the coach. I don’t remember ever losing 4 straight games in the playoffs. Have we ever done it in any other series in franchise history?

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:05 am

Going up 2-0 and then losing 4 straight is very much on the coach. I don’t remember ever losing 4 straight games in the playoffs. Have we ever done it in any other series in franchise history?

And I don't think he would disagree with you.

I think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.