Phx-Suns.Net

Good win, we held off their runs well enough and I think may be figuring out the bench a bit. Their wings are streak shooters so someone was bound to go off. I like that we're playing faster and KD seems to be asserting himself more and more. Book's elevated his game and looks unguardable. Even the most difficult shots look like they're all going in.

I like that Monty stuck with Okogie, whose offense seems to have left again. Still got to the line and rebounded well. TC hit some big 3s again, CP had some good looks and just bricked his attempts. If those fall, it's a different game altogether.

I like Lee getting minutes and hitting those 3s. He's the kind of 3pt shooter we need off of Book and KD now. We just need to live with the defense.

I hadn't noticed that CP3 also got 40 minutes last night. And our game tomorrow is at 12:30pm. Perfect recipe for the deep Clips to catch us on tired legs and steal Game 4. I think that'll be a loss.

We really need Payne Saturday. I hope he can go. We need to be able to keep CP3 fresh. I fear he may only be able to give us 1 or 2 games a series. I honestly wouldn’t be opposed to resting him in game 4 if Payne is ready.

Also we are definitely not winning the title if these are the versions of CP3 and Ayton we get. I fear Jokic is going to destroy us with the version of Ayton we are getting.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:51 am

Great to get this win. Kind of a must-win; if we couldn't beat this Clips team without Kawhi and PG, that'd be pretty pathetic. We should be concerned by how much they stuck with us, though. We barely won and still had to play Book 45 minutes yet again. This is going to come back to bite us.

Folks were saying that KD struggled and had a bad game. I don't know if I agree. Sure he didn't have a gaudy stat line, but even on a "quiet" night he got us 28/6/5. And I just see countless plays where KD draws a double-team or distracts 2-3 defenders and then another player gets a good shot because of it. I don't remember ever having a player like that before who just drew that much attention on offense, who had that much gravity and drove that much fear into the opponents' hearts. KD is extremely valuable on both ends of the floor.

I really think Coach should be playing Damion Lee more. He will get so many open looks from 3 on this team, and he can actually make them. In 11 minutes he had 8 points and hit two 3s for us last night. I think he should get most of those Shamet minutes. I don't think the TJ Warren experiment is really working, though; would rather see more minutes for Okogie or maybe Ross instead.

We're lucky that Eric Gordon couldn't hit anything last night. I think the Clips would have beaten us if their guys had just played to their usual levels. Really happy we got the win, but if it is this hard for us to beat the Clips without their 2 best players, we have some work to do if we want to be a championship team.

I don't think I'm that concerned with how much they stuck with us. Powell had an incredible game that I don't think he'll be reproducing (especially if Kawhi and/or PG13 come back), and I think it speaks to how great KD is that he "struggled" and ended with 28/6/5. When was the last time KD threw two shots up off the side of the backboard? And I think if CP3 has just an average game, and DA was not even more off than he normally is, then I think we're talking about a blowout win.

I'm not that concerned with KD's and CP3's minutes. It just seems like they're not expending as much energy out there as they have in the past. There are lots of offensive possessions where KD is an outlet in the corner. CP3 isn't bringing the ball up as often. I mean, yes, they're minutes, but I don't think all minutes are equal. And I think Booker can handle the extended minutes at this point in his career... he's just phenomenal.

wpmiller42 wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:18 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:51 am

Great to get this win. Kind of a must-win; if we couldn't beat this Clips team without Kawhi and PG, that'd be pretty pathetic. We should be concerned by how much they stuck with us, though. We barely won and still had to play Book 45 minutes yet again. This is going to come back to bite us.

Folks were saying that KD struggled and had a bad game. I don't know if I agree. Sure he didn't have a gaudy stat line, but even on a "quiet" night he got us 28/6/5. And I just see countless plays where KD draws a double-team or distracts 2-3 defenders and then another player gets a good shot because of it. I don't remember ever having a player like that before who just drew that much attention on offense, who had that much gravity and drove that much fear into the opponents' hearts. KD is extremely valuable on both ends of the floor.

I really think Coach should be playing Damion Lee more. He will get so many open looks from 3 on this team, and he can actually make them. In 11 minutes he had 8 points and hit two 3s for us last night. I think he should get most of those Shamet minutes. I don't think the TJ Warren experiment is really working, though; would rather see more minutes for Okogie or maybe Ross instead.

We're lucky that Eric Gordon couldn't hit anything last night. I think the Clips would have beaten us if their guys had just played to their usual levels. Really happy we got the win, but if it is this hard for us to beat the Clips without their 2 best players, we have some work to do if we want to be a championship team.

I don't think I'm that concerned with how much they stuck with us. Powell had an incredible game that I don't think he'll be reproducing (especially if Kawhi and/or PG13 come back), and I think it speaks to how great KD is that he "struggled" and ended with 28/6/5. When was the last time KD threw two shots up off the side of the backboard? And I think if CP3 has just an average game, and DA was not even more off than he normally is, then I think we're talking about a blowout win.

I'm not that concerned with KD's and CP3's minutes. It just seems like they're not expending as much energy out there as they have in the past. There are lots of offensive possessions where KD is an outlet in the corner. CP3 isn't bringing the ball up as often. I mean, yes, they're minutes, but I don't think all minutes are equal. And I think Booker can handle the extended minutes at this point in his career... he's just phenomenal.

I'm with you. Powell and Westbrook played out of their minds. That's not going to happen every game. Book didn't even like coming out for the 12 minutes that he did. I'm not worried about him. Paul seems to be an every other game guy now. Ayton is gone this offseason if he keeps up his current lackluster play. He could take us over the top but he's like, "Nah..."

And it seems to me that the Clippers without their stars are exerting a lot of energy trying to stay with the Suns. They are human too. They overplayed everything the entire game and most of the series so far. EJ kept commenting on how you can beat that with back door plays. I think of Ceballos and the Brazilian Blur and their frequent back door plays. I don’t seem to be seeing any back door plays by the Suns. Payne would have had a few had he been playing.

I suspect that the Clippers knew earlier than right before tipoff that Leonard wouldn’t be playing and announced it right before tipoff to throw off the Suns. They Clippers have been throwing out all kinds of different looks at the Suns trying to throw them off. Hats off to the Clippers. They have had a good game plan and they have been playing with their amps turned up to 11.

The Suns are a little hamstrung by the fact that they lost key players who were replaced by new players late in the season and haven’t had time to build chemistry are really establish a pecking order other than of course KD. Warren was a total bad ass for the Suns when he was here other than the fact he was always hurt. He came in last night and the Clippers picked on him defensively and I don’t think he shot the ball once. He was just getting it going offensively at the end of the season. Ross and him were a dynamic duo at the end of the season and I thought that was going to be the guys Monty went to in the playoffs and that hasn’t been the case at all. Maybe they just got playing time then to rest the starters more going into the playoffs.

The Suns are having to build chemistry on the fly. If they can survive the Clippers, I think they will have gained some much needed chemistry building time and start gelling more. KD has made a great double team decoy that has made life easier for Booker. Booker has been used to always being double teamed until KD arrived. There were a few plays where KD was double teamed near the three point line on one side and Booker was wide open on the opposite corner calling for the ball and KD couldn’t see it or couldn’t get the ball there. I think eventually they will both learn how to play off each other better. I also think CP3 is trying to figure out his role in this offense. He’s played with a lot of people and teams. He will figure it out. His new role doesn’t have him working as hard to create as much as he used to. I am hopeful the Suns will figure out a few different looks on offense to confuse teams and keep them guessing.

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:58 am

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 am

bajanguy008 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:01 pm

I usually read all the posts then make mine
Because of that sometimes I just don't bother to comment on DA cause he gets enough heat on here as is but I haven't read a thing yet cause I have to add my 2cents

Tonight was like really really badd man
Unbelievably so.....

We've been commenting on the same thing for years, stronger with the ball and usually that shows up on rebounds (happen tonight also) or catching in traffic (also happen tonight) but watching Plumlee guard him was depressing man

I was cursing then just disheartened cause I felt like Plumlee was gonna steal the ball every time....
Like he was pressing right up on DA at the 3pt line, high post, wherever and DA is there literally trying to hold the ball strong and Plumlee just kept knocking it out

It's one thing to get a rebound and someone comes in when you're bringing the ball down but to be just standing gripping the ball and keep having it dislodged is mind-blowing......

I don't know what to say man

I think if there is a suitor for him this summer, he’s gotta go. too much $ spent on players who aren’t consistent. This is now game 3 and we’re still waiting on playoff Ayton.

Yup….he needs to go something fierce. Him and CP3 can be packaged…. They’re the things holding us back, no matter how much people want to excuse aytons bullshit.

He’s a skilled player but it always relies on whether his team is engaging him to be effective. Perhaps the game moves too fast for him or he has some attention issues.
The Ayton this team needs is from playoffs two years ago when he was playing for his extension that didn’t come. That dude was hungry for every board and changed every shot in the paint and was in the right place on offense. Sure other teams now know how to defend his preferences. But has he developed counters? Has he learned to stay high with the ball or stop looking for a rhythm dribble in a crowded fucking paint? Nope.
Could he at least just go balls out with effort on the glass and on defense?

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:55 pm

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:58 am

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 am

bajanguy008 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:01 pm

I usually read all the posts then make mine
Because of that sometimes I just don't bother to comment on DA cause he gets enough heat on here as is but I haven't read a thing yet cause I have to add my 2cents

Tonight was like really really badd man
Unbelievably so.....

We've been commenting on the same thing for years, stronger with the ball and usually that shows up on rebounds (happen tonight also) or catching in traffic (also happen tonight) but watching Plumlee guard him was depressing man

I was cursing then just disheartened cause I felt like Plumlee was gonna steal the ball every time....
Like he was pressing right up on DA at the 3pt line, high post, wherever and DA is there literally trying to hold the ball strong and Plumlee just kept knocking it out

It's one thing to get a rebound and someone comes in when you're bringing the ball down but to be just standing gripping the ball and keep having it dislodged is mind-blowing......

I don't know what to say man

I think if there is a suitor for him this summer, he’s gotta go. too much $ spent on players who aren’t consistent. This is now game 3 and we’re still waiting on playoff Ayton.

Yup….he needs to go something fierce. Him and CP3 can be packaged…. They’re the things holding us back, no matter how much people want to excuse aytons bullshit.

He’s a skilled player but it always relies on whether his team is engaging him to be effective. Perhaps the game moves too fast for him or he has some attention issues.
The Ayton this team needs is from playoffs two years ago when he was playing for his extension that didn’t come. That dude was hungry for every board and changed every shot in the paint and was in the right place on offense. Sure other teams now know how to defend his preferences. But has he developed counters? Has he learned to stay high with the ball or stop looking for a rhythm dribble in a crowded fucking paint? Nope.
Could he at least just go balls out with effort on the glass and on defense?

And that's all you need to know as to the reason we need to move on from him.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:43 pm

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:55 pm

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:58 am

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 am

bajanguy008 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:01 pm

I usually read all the posts then make mine
Because of that sometimes I just don't bother to comment on DA cause he gets enough heat on here as is but I haven't read a thing yet cause I have to add my 2cents

Tonight was like really really badd man
Unbelievably so.....

We've been commenting on the same thing for years, stronger with the ball and usually that shows up on rebounds (happen tonight also) or catching in traffic (also happen tonight) but watching Plumlee guard him was depressing man

I was cursing then just disheartened cause I felt like Plumlee was gonna steal the ball every time....
Like he was pressing right up on DA at the 3pt line, high post, wherever and DA is there literally trying to hold the ball strong and Plumlee just kept knocking it out

It's one thing to get a rebound and someone comes in when you're bringing the ball down but to be just standing gripping the ball and keep having it dislodged is mind-blowing......

I don't know what to say man

I think if there is a suitor for him this summer, he’s gotta go. too much $ spent on players who aren’t consistent. This is now game 3 and we’re still waiting on playoff Ayton.

Yup….he needs to go something fierce. Him and CP3 can be packaged…. They’re the things holding us back, no matter how much people want to excuse aytons bullshit.

He’s a skilled player but it always relies on whether his team is engaging him to be effective. Perhaps the game moves too fast for him or he has some attention issues.
The Ayton this team needs is from playoffs two years ago when he was playing for his extension that didn’t come. That dude was hungry for every board and changed every shot in the paint and was in the right place on offense. Sure other teams now know how to defend his preferences. But has he developed counters? Has he learned to stay high with the ball or stop looking for a rhythm dribble in a crowded fucking paint? Nope.
Could he at least just go balls out with effort on the glass and on defense?

And that's all you need to know as to the reason we need to move on from him.

It's hard to accept Aytons lack of aggression when you have a guy like Booker out there doing it on both ends of the floor. I get Ayton is, what he is... but he WAS much more before; which is why it's hard for us to accept his regression.

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:02 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:43 pm

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:55 pm

Kryptonic wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:58 am

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 am

I think if there is a suitor for him this summer, he’s gotta go. too much $ spent on players who aren’t consistent. This is now game 3 and we’re still waiting on playoff Ayton.

Yup….he needs to go something fierce. Him and CP3 can be packaged…. They’re the things holding us back, no matter how much people want to excuse aytons bullshit.

He’s a skilled player but it always relies on whether his team is engaging him to be effective. Perhaps the game moves too fast for him or he has some attention issues.
The Ayton this team needs is from playoffs two years ago when he was playing for his extension that didn’t come. That dude was hungry for every board and changed every shot in the paint and was in the right place on offense. Sure other teams now know how to defend his preferences. But has he developed counters? Has he learned to stay high with the ball or stop looking for a rhythm dribble in a crowded fucking paint? Nope.
Could he at least just go balls out with effort on the glass and on defense?

And that's all you need to know as to the reason we need to move on from him.

It's hard to accept Aytons lack of aggression when you have a guy like Booker out there doing it on both ends of the floor. I get Ayton is, what he is... but he WAS much more before; which is why it's hard for us to accept his regression.

Booker is a basketball player that loves the game. Ayton is an athlete that gets paid to play basketball. Huge difference.

Said it before, big Andrew Bynum vibes.

We can go dig up posts before we drafted Ayton where he said his goal was to get a 2nd contract. That's it. If I recall correctly there were a lot of people throwing up red flags over that and they were right. He got his bag and that's that.

TOO wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:13 pm

Said it before, big Andrew Bynum vibes.

I was also thinking Joe Barry Carrol and Michael Olowokandi. Both overall number ones if I remember right.

carey wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:32 pm

We can go dig up posts before we drafted Ayton where he said his goal was to get a 2nd contract. That's it. If I recall correctly there were a lot of people throwing up red flags over that and they were right. He got his bag and that's that.

I remember it well. It was a major concern of mine at the time and it turns out it was for good reason.

Good grief. You all are more obsessed with Ayton than I am.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:49 pm

Good grief. You all are more obsessed with Ayton than I am.

Replace obsessed with disappointed. #1 overall and McD chose badly. Where were the background checks? It was clear even back then.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:49 pm

Good grief. You all are more obsessed with Ayton than I am.

It's because he's so important to what we're trying to accomplish. The regression (from a young player!) + the lack of effort (in the playoffs!) from a max player is just killer.

I've been fantasizing about what we could look like with someone like Mitchell Robinson (+ depth) in his spot.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:49 pm

Good grief. You all are more obsessed with Ayton than I am.

Obsessed, yes... With the team as a whole, not one player.

SMH.. I already forgot about my gimmick after two games.

Game 1

Durant: 26pt, 11ast, 9reb, 1stl, 2blk for a total of 49, which is more than his $44M salary. Pass
Booker: 37, $34M. Pass
Ayton: 25, $31M. Fail
Paul: 30, $28M. Pass
Craig: 28, $5M. Pass
Shamet: 7, $9M. Fail

Game 2

Durant: 39, $44M. Fail
Booker: 49, $34M. Pass
Ayton: 27, $31M. Fail
Paul: 30, $28M. Pass
Craig: 24, $5M. Pass

No other Suns player hit 16 minutes, but both Okogie and Biz were at 15 so just for fun..

Okogie: 12, $2M. Pass
Biyombo: 16, $2M. Pass

Game 3

Durant: 41, $44M. Fail
Booker: 59, $34M. Pass
Ayton: 24, $31M. Fail
Paul: 28, $28M. Push
Craig: 21, $5M. Pass
Okogie: 16, $2M. Pass

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:20 pm

SMH.. I already forgot about my gimmick after two games.

Game 1

Durant: 26pt, 11ast, 9reb, 1stl, 2blk for a total of 49, which is more than his $44M salary. Pass
Booker: 37, $34M. Pass
Ayton: 25, $31M. Fail
Paul: 30, $28M. Pass
Craig: 28, $5M. Pass
Shamet: 7, $9M. Fail

Game 2

Durant: 39, $44M. Fail
Booker: 49, $34M. Pass
Ayton: 27, $31M. Fail
Paul: 30, $28M. Pass
Craig: 24, $5M. Pass

No other Suns player hit 16 minutes, but both Okogie and Biz were at 15 so just for fun..

Okogie: 12, $2M. Pass
Biyombo: 16, $2M. Pass

Game 3

Durant: 41, $44M. Fail
Booker: 59, $34M. Pass
Ayton: 24, $31M. Fail
Paul: 28, $28M. Push
Craig: 21, $5M. Pass
Okogie: 16, $2M. Pass

Interesting …. Cool way to look at things.