Phx-Suns.Net

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 15, 2025 6:31 pm

Jesus. Okay won't be back in this thread

terrific, i don't need to be wasting time with any more agitators who choose to take issue with me instead of debate the issue at hand

especially those who completely ignore facts, stats, and other evidence

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 15, 2025 12:16 pm

Read it and weep, Booker haters!

This is utter insanity. The CBA should not be constructed so that you have to offer a two year extension just one year into a new contract, if you want to avoid offending your franchise player! I don’t understand how the owners agreed to this. It adds way too much potential risk, including catastrophic injuries.

Booker is certainly not worth the risk, especially with his hamstring history, as he gets older. The time to trade him is now, when he will return maximum value (perhaps still almost the maximum he’s ever commanded or ever will command) and let his new team deal with any extensions.

Prediction: by 2030, when the extension ends, basically every Suns fan will agree that it wasn’t worth it.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 15, 2025 7:47 pm

Prediction: by 2030, when the extension ends, basically every Suns fan will agree that it wasn’t worth it.

I've marked your post to revisit in 2030.

1tinsoldier and Jeremy hating on Booker nonstop but never saying anything bad about Ayton ever.

This whole thread is just silly. I'm stuck between cringing and laughing. It's a very awkward look.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:23 pm

1tinsoldier and Jeremy hating on Booker nonstop but never saying anything bad about Ayton ever.

newsflash: Ayton hasn't been a Sun for 3 years, Obama's been out of office for most of Booker's career and this thread is not about them, or me or Jeremy

the best argument for trading Booker is that not one poster in a Suns forum has anything intelligent and on-topic to say about Booker's season stats?

Carno wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 11:06 am

This whole thread is just silly. I'm stuck between cringing and laughing. It's a very awkward look.

well, you're half right.

how about contributing a comment about Booker's season stats instead of starring at the car wreck as you drive by?

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 11:19 am

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:23 pm

1tinsoldier and Jeremy hating on Booker nonstop but never saying anything bad about Ayton ever.

newsflash: Ayton hasn't been a Sun for 3 years, Obama's been out of office for most of Booker's career and this thread is not about them, or me or Jeremy

the best argument for trading Booker is that not one poster in a Suns forum has anything intelligent and on-topic to say about Booker's season stats?

Plenty of intelligent and on topic stuff has been said…problem is you think anyone who disagrees is a dumb dumb. It’s pointless to try and converse with you on this, so we’re stuck just watching your rampage against Booker.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 1:16 pm

Plenty of intelligent and on topic stuff has been said…problem is you think anyone who disagrees is a dumb dumb. It’s pointless to try and converse with you on this, so we’re stuck just watching your rampage against Booker.

Nobody is forced. The blocking feature is your friend. Why would anybody attempt to converse with somebody that is a brick wall and thinks he's the smartest person in the room and everybody else is an idiot? It's not worth it.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 1:16 pm

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 11:19 am

the best argument for trading Booker is that not one poster in a Suns forum has anything intelligent and on-topic to say about Booker's season stats?

Plenty of intelligent and on topic stuff has been said…problem is you think anyone who disagrees is a dumb dumb. It’s pointless to try and converse with you on this, so we’re stuck just watching your rampage against Booker.

exhibit A:
you just responded to my factual observation that no one has addressed Booker's SEASON STATS, with another personal attack on me

i never called anyone stupid. "stupid is as stupid does."

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 15, 2025 11:38 am

the stats are in:

Devin Booker 2024-2025 Season

OFFENSE RANKING (50% of a players value)
12th in points
15th in assists
239th in shooting percentage
307th in 3pt percentage
107th offensive rating
289th clutch rating
(33%, 18% 3pt. 7 career game winning shots- very low for a team's #1 option, go-to player over 11 seasons)

522th (of 568) DEFENSE RANKING (50% of a players value)

overall 434th +/- rating (OFFENSE + DEFENSE impact)

Top 10 NBA salary (Booker will make more than Kevin Durant next season though Durant has better stats in all of the above except for assists.) An expected 70 million Booker deal is expected this year. Currently, the top NBA salary is 59 million.

Team Performance:
Worst Suns season several times. Best Suns season + NBA Finals + among top defensive team and clutch team with Chris Paul for 2 seasons. Back to among worst defensive and clutch team without Chris Paul. 7 coaches replaced over 10 seasons. Consistent team chemistry/motivation/meltdown problems though the team has been completely turned over and built around Booker many times.

THAT'S JUST THE FACTS. The stats are from NBA.com. Please do correct me if i misread anything.

Alright, you want a response…here you go:

First off, saying offense is only 50% of a players value is just wrong. Offense is definitely more important as you have more control over who runs your offense. You can hide someone on defense and teams can avoid players on defense.

I also think we’ve all expressed on here that Booker has had a poor season by his standards, so I don’t exactly know what you are looking for when it comes to responses as no one is trying to say he was great this year. But let’s look at your stats:

Comparing fg% to every other nba player is misleading. You are comparing him to players who don’t create any shots and only take shots at the rim. EFG% and TS% are also better options as they take into consideration shot value and free throws…and you should really only compare people of similar usage rate. I posted earlier(no one responded) that Booker’s TS% this year is actually higher than his career numbers. Booker is 19th in TS% among players with a usage rate over 25 who played at least 50 games. Players he is ahead of include, Luka Doncic, Jayson Tatum, Anthony Davis, Donovan Mitchell, James Harden, Cade Cunningham, Trae Young, and Jalen Williams.

I don’t know what the offensive rating, clutch rating, or defensive ranking that you posted are. I have rarely seen a good all encompassing stat in those regards. I will say that Booker has clearly had a bad year in the clutch and on defense. No argument there. I’ll add some stats from dunksandthrees.com that I’ve heard are highly thought of(though admittedly I don’t know how it’s calculated, but it passes the eye test). It ranks Booker as the 15th most effective offensive player this year(97th percentile) and near the bottom defensively(8th percentile). Overall this stat puts him in the 88th percentile(60th) on a per game basis and in the 94th percentile(28th) when you factor in minutes played. You’d want your best player higher than that for sure, but this paints a picture that he’s still a very good player.

As for the contract…yes it’s a lot of money, but it’s not more than KD next year(though the difference is very small). I’d also point out that saying he can sign a 70 million dollar contract this summer and comparing that to the highest salary of 59 million is misleading. He can sign an extension that kicks in in 2028-29, 3 years from now. 59 million will not be the highest salary then. The amount he makes in 28-29 won’t change in relation to the salary cap. It will be 35% of the cap, so it’s equivalent to what he’s making today.

I think it’s fair to debate whether he’s worth that as I do agree that he isn’t good enough to be the best player on a title winner, but there’s not a team in the league that wouldn’t take Booker on that deal right now.

I think questioning the chemistry stuff is fair. We’ve got 2 years now where it seems to have been bad. My first thought is questioning the change from Monty(though we had issues with him as well), but a lot is probably moving on from CP3, Mikal, and Cam. Booker has shown he can be on a team with good chemistry…he just might not create it. I don’t think he’s the cause of the bad chemistry..but he’s not above questioning.

thank you. That's even more than i asked for

a breath of fresh air dealing with the facts
and we actually agree.
aside from some details, you and i and dunksandthrees concur:

It ranks Booker as the 15th most effective offensive player this year(97th percentile) and near the bottom defensively(8th percentile). Overall this stat puts him in the 88th percentile(60th) on a per game basis and in the 94th percentile(28th) when you factor in minutes played. You’d want your best player higher than that for sure, but this paints a picture that he’s still a very good player.

he is, indeed, a "very good player" -- but a role-player being paid like a superstar and team leader

where i differ with everyone, i'm sure, is that if i were to sign a player today with Booker's skills and weaknesses, i'd pay him 20 million per season, he'd be my 3rd option on offense, and unless i had 4 strong defenders to start with him, he'd have to be a 6th man.

not unreasonable considering the average NBA starter makes 8 or 9 million

1tinsoldier wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:58 pm

thank you. That's even more than i asked for

a breath of fresh air dealing with the facts
and we actually agree.
aside from some details, you and i and dunksandthrees concur:

It ranks Booker as the 15th most effective offensive player this year(97th percentile) and near the bottom defensively(8th percentile). Overall this stat puts him in the 88th percentile(60th) on a per game basis and in the 94th percentile(28th) when you factor in minutes played. You’d want your best player higher than that for sure, but this paints a picture that he’s still a very good player.

he is, indeed, a "very good player" -- but a role-player being paid like a superstar and team leader

where i differ with everyone, i'm sure, is that if i were to sign a player today with Booker's skills and weaknesses, i'd pay him 20 million per season, he'd be my 3rd option on offense, and unless i had 4 strong defenders to start with him, he'd have to be a 6th man.

not unreasonable considering the average NBA starter makes 8 or 9 million

Average salary is closer to 12/13 million I believe now…but I don’t know exact numbers…that’s where the MLE is. I think you’d find that most teams 3rd options, while not on max deals, are likely well over 20 million. Grayson Allen almost makes 20 million now.

I also think this was a weird year and expect him to be better next year. We’ll have to wait and see on that, but I think he can be the 2nd best guy on a title contender. I’d hesitate to offer him an extension right now as the team is in shambles, but if we put the right team around him, I’d be willing to pay him that.

Whatever will be will be.

I can't wait until we keep KD, the complaints will be epic.

Whatever will be will be.

JustWinBaby wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 17, 2025 1:21 am

Whatever will be will be.

I can't wait until we keep KD, the complaints will be epic.

Whatever will be will be.

Que Sera, Sera.

Booker, Suns should part ways, says Rachel Nichols

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 271915007/

“The thing you have to do is strip down the team, get some of those picks back from the Rockets, by the way, have them,” Nichols said. “So you control your own fate there. Look, I know trading Devin Booker would be a huge hit for them in terms of the fan base and just sort of the loyalty factor.”

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 25, 2025 4:59 pm

Booker, Suns should part ways, says Rachel Nichols

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 271915007/

“The thing you have to do is strip down the team, get some of those picks back from the Rockets, by the way, have them,” Nichols said. “So you control your own fate there. Look, I know trading Devin Booker would be a huge hit for them in terms of the fan base and just sort of the loyalty factor.”

Well, if Rachel Nichols says it...