Page 154 of 257
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:21 am
by virtual9mm
If the Suns trade Ayton, it had better make the team better.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:31 am
by Split T
I think it’s possible there is a disconnect on what makes the team better on paper and what makes the team better in actuality. If there is any lingering issues between Ayton and the team, making what appears to be a downgrade on paper may actually improve the team on the court.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:42 am
by Mori Chu
It seems like most of these rumors are being put out by Portland or Miami to try to influence public opinion as they negotiate their Lillard trade parameters. I don't think we should have any part in it. I haven't heard a realistic version of this trade that makes us better. We have a real chance to win a title next year and we shouldn't eff around with it. And I don't think "depth" trades really help us. Ayton for a worse center and 1-2 other pieces? When are we going to find minutes for those pieces? We already have 10-12 guys who will deserve minutes. I'd stay away from these trades.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:48 am
by Kryptonic
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:31 am
I think it’s possible there is a disconnect on what makes the team better on paper and what makes the team better in actuality. If there is any lingering issues between Ayton and the team, making what appears to be a downgrade on paper may actually improve the team on the court.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
I’m sure if he’s still here this season and struggles it will be bookers fault, or the lemonade guy.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:07 am
by Split T
Mori Chu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:42 am
It seems like most of these rumors are being put out by Portland or Miami to try to influence public opinion as they negotiate their Lillard trade parameters. I don't think we should have any part in it. I haven't heard a realistic version of this trade that makes us better. We have a real chance to win a title next year and we shouldn't eff around with it. And I don't think "depth" trades really help us. Ayton for a worse center and 1-2 other pieces? When are we going to find minutes for those pieces? We already have 10-12 guys who will deserve minutes. I'd stay away from these trades.
I agree we have some decent depth, but that depth is more 6-10 on the depth chart. If we could trade Ayton for a 4th and 5th starter I think that’s a win.
Let’s just assume Nurkic and Martin
Beal/Book/Martin/KD/Nurkic
Goodwin/Gordon/Yuta/KBD/Eubanks
Okogie/Lee/Camara/Bol/Metu
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:58 am
by Superbone
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:31 am
I think it’s possible there is a disconnect on what makes the team better on paper and what makes the team better in actuality. If there is any lingering issues between Ayton and the team, making what appears to be a downgrade on paper may actually improve the team on the court.
There is also a lot of room for interpretation. It’s not hard to make the team better from what we saw from Ayton in the Denver series. Are we saying trading him needs to make the team better from that baseline? Or from say what 2021 Playoffs Ayton would do for this team? I don’t think anything we get back in an Ayton trade makes us better than what 2021 Ayton would do for the team.
Can we trust Ayton is the question. None of us are remotely in a position to answer that question though. Where is his head at? Does he want to be fed the ball? Or is he content to be the defensive anchor and mostly just screen and roll on offense? Vogel and JJ should have a good idea in that regards. I trust them to make the right decision. Right now it seems they prefer a change.
I was with you until the last sentence. I'm not going to assume that based on rumors. I guess maybe Gambo's selling of it led you that way?
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:01 am
by Split T
For me it’s just the repeated rumors. It seems we’ve tried to move him multiple times over the last couple years.
And the fact Gambo says we’d be interested if Nurkic was available tells me they want to move him. That’s a downgrade
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:47 am
by In2ition
Cap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:05 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:56 pm
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:07 pm
Wally_West wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:03 pm
Gambo has had a pretty good run with scoops this year. He deserves his flowers.
a broken clock is even right 2 times a day... I just think he swings and misses way too often.
Wow, the standards expected here are wild on trying to report stuff they have ZERO control over themselves. You do realize that it could be emminent, and the very next second the whole thing could blow up, right? We all need to relax on thinking they need to be prophets without blemish.
It could be imminent and the very next second blow up. If it’s eminent they just take what they need and give you fair value, so there are no negotiations to blow up.
No, I don’t have anything better to be doing than posting this crap, why?
Usually, it's literally their job to talk about discussions that create content.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:49 am
by Cap
In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:47 am
Cap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:05 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:56 pm
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:07 pm
Wally_West wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:03 pm
Gambo has had a pretty good run with scoops this year. He deserves his flowers.
a broken clock is even right 2 times a day... I just think he swings and misses way too often.
Wow, the standards expected here are wild on trying to report stuff they have ZERO control over themselves. You do realize that it could be emminent, and the very next second the whole thing could blow up, right? We all need to relax on thinking they need to be prophets without blemish.
It could be imminent and the very next second blow up. If it’s eminent they just take what they need and give you fair value, so there are no negotiations to blow up.
No, I don’t have anything better to be doing than posting this crap, why?
Usually, it's literally their job to talk about discussions that create content.
I was talking about myself posting about your spelling error.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:07 am
by Superbone
I don't like these new rumors. I had gotten myself excited about a possible turning point for Ayton back to his trajectory up to the 2021 playoffs. In Jones and Vogel's faith in Ayton. In Vogel's past success with big men. In Ayton's promising attitude in the FIBA games. I was ready to go into training camp, exhibition, and start the season with the current team. Now it feels like it is in flux. Can only worry about what I can control and just enjoy the ride. Here's to hoping the best decisions for the Suns upcoming season are the result.
Glad to have you all to talk it through with in the meantime. We're getting close. Hopefully going to be a season for the ages.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:12 am
by Cap
I don’t like them either, except the OG/Nurk version.
Beal-Book-OG-KD-Nurk with Vogel coaching and a decent bench? Should be a defensive powerhouse.
And then instead of that annoying argument about whether KDB, Yuta or JO should start, we can argue about which of them should be second off the bench, which is a much more pleasant argument to have.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:16 am
by Split T
OG would be a dream scenario…though he doesn’t present a new dilemma next summer when we’d have to pay him.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:54 am
by Cap
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:16 am
OG would be a dream scenario…though he doesn’t present a new dilemma next summer when we’d have to pay him.
Is that a dilemma? Is another team going to outbid Ishbia? We’d have full Bird rights, so it’s just a matter of willingness, and keeping the player happy so he won’t leave for less money.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:00 pm
by In2ition
Cap wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:49 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:47 am
Cap wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:05 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:56 pm
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:07 pm
a broken clock is even right 2 times a day... I just think he swings and misses way too often.
Wow, the standards expected here are wild on trying to report stuff they have ZERO control over themselves. You do realize that it could be emminent, and the very next second the whole thing could blow up, right? We all need to relax on thinking they need to be prophets without blemish.
It could be imminent and the very next second blow up. If it’s eminent they just take what they need and give you fair value, so there are no negotiations to blow up.
No, I don’t have anything better to be doing than posting this crap, why?
Usually, it's literally their job to talk about discussions that create content.
I was talking about myself posting about your spelling error.
Oh, I didn't realize I had a spelling error, but not surprised. I was never a spelling bee champ, haha. Thanks for letting me know.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:07 pm
by Split T
Cap wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:54 am
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:16 am
OG would be a dream scenario…though he doesn’t present a new dilemma next summer when we’d have to pay him.
Is that a dilemma? Is another team going to outbid Ishbia? We’d have full Bird rights, so it’s just a matter of willingness, and keeping the player happy so he won’t leave for less money.
I don’t know. Ishbia has shown a willingness to spend, but how far would he go. Assuming Nurkic is coming with OG, we’d have 170 million locked up in 4 guys. OG will want a 30 million dollar contract. That pushes us to 200 million on 5 guys and has us probably pushing 225 million in total salary. That would be 45 million over the luxury tax. Not sure what the total bill would be, but GS is on track to pay 188 million for being 41 million over this year.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:23 pm
by JeremyG
This is now the longest thread in this forum, beating out the 153 pages for last year’s offseason thread (Kevin Durant).
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:33 pm
by Kryptonic
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:23 pm
This is now the longest thread in this forum, beating out the 153 pages for last year’s offseason thread (Kevin Durant).
Congrats…. I give you mad props in carrying it!
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:58 pm
by JeremyG
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:33 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:23 pm
This is now the longest thread in this forum, beating out the 153 pages for last year’s offseason thread (Kevin Durant).
Congrats…. I give you mad props in carrying it!
Haha thanks, but I think it was moreso the Hayters who kept it going than me!
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:51 pm
by Superbone
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:58 pm
Kryptonic wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:33 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 3:23 pm
This is now the longest thread in this forum, beating out the 153 pages for last year’s offseason thread (Kevin Durant).
Congrats…. I give you mad props in carrying it!
Haha thanks, but I think it was moreso the Hayters who kept it going than me!
I'd say you have a symbiotic relationship.
Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:06 pm
by JeremyG
Has Gambo ever been this wishy-washy before? What’s gotten into him lately? Lol.