Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[AmareIsGod]

You could argue that Payne being so damn bad may have caused CP3's injury(whatever injury that is). Idk what happened before Game 7, but it seemed like they thought they could just show up and win. Something internal must have been going on that really affected all of them. It was not the same team that I watched all year or even the year before.

This. You nailed exactly my thoughts.

[Shabazz]

I’m still at a loss about the whole thing…

[Drewsprocket]

I remember being very uneasy about trusting Payne as the backup PG before the season. Every Suns fan in my social circle(outside of phx-suns.net) really wanted Jones to find someone better, because none of us trusted him. It was like hoping that the bubblegum, popsicle sticks and duck tape to hold on through the rough roads that were sure to come at some point.

Yeah, it was good insight. He has the capacity to be the same great player. My guess is he never developed the mid range pull up and was just too predictable. If you don’t add wrinkles to your game you become predictable and in the playoffs they’ll take your shit away. Adding to the mix is that he is someone who gets too high and too low emotionally. Irrational confidence man but can come crashing down.
JJ probably had some good offers for him before the deadline.

[Indy]

We didn't go to Holiday for a reason. He wasn't good at running the offense, and he would have been destroyed by Luka or Brunson or Dinwiddie. All of those guys are much strong and much bigger.

And honestly, it sounds like Monty didn't have the chutzpah to pull Chris Paul. Chris was not moving well at all the last 3 games of the series, but it sounds like last year in LA again. Paul said on JJ's podcast that Monty told him he wasn't going to play because he was injured, and Paul said "nah, I am going to play" and he played with one arm. Probably something similar this season after game 4.

[Split T]

I got sucked into Cam…was more worried we wouldn’t be able to re-sign him than I was worried about replacing him. Didn’t realize how much he depended on a stretch big. You’d think his 3pt shot would’ve remained, but that disappeared too.

I’m not against keeping him around, but we have to upgrade either his or the Shamet spot. Neither are a 3rd guard.

[In2ition]

We didn't go to Holiday for a reason. He wasn't good at running the offense, and he would have been destroyed by Luka or Brunson or Dinwiddie. All of those guys are much strong and much bigger.

And honestly, it sounds like Monty didn't have the chutzpah to pull Chris Paul. Chris was not moving well at all the last 3 games of the series, but it sounds like last year in LA again. Paul said on JJ's podcast that Monty told him he wasn't going to play because he was injured, and Paul said "nah, I am going to play" and he played with one arm. Probably something similar this season after game 4.

I agree all of with this, except I would say that Holiday is pretty dang strong, but probably not quite as strong as Brunson or Dinwiddie, and definitely not as strong as Luka.

[Split T]

One other thing on Payne…I went back to check what his plus/minus was last year with different 2-man combinations…his best net rating was +16.1 when on the court with Dario…his worst was -2.3 with Ayton. So that should’ve been a good indicator he needed a space. He was +12.5 with Frank too. His 2nd lowest was +5.1 with Jae.

This years numbers don’t tell that same story as he was positive with Ayton and was +9.9 with Javale…but that feels a little like we succeeded in spite of him this year. He was positive across the board.

[Indy]

We didn't go to Holiday for a reason. He wasn't good at running the offense, and he would have been destroyed by Luka or Brunson or Dinwiddie. All of those guys are much strong and much bigger.

And honestly, it sounds like Monty didn't have the chutzpah to pull Chris Paul. Chris was not moving well at all the last 3 games of the series, but it sounds like last year in LA again. Paul said on JJ's podcast that Monty told him he wasn't going to play because he was injured, and Paul said "nah, I am going to play" and he played with one arm. Probably something similar this season after game 4.

I agree all of with this, except I would say that Holiday is pretty dang strong, but probably not quite as strong as Brunson or Dinwiddie, and definitely not as strong as Luka.

Agreed. He is stronger than our other guards, but too short to make a difference on any of those guys. And doesn't have the smarts that Paul does to make things difficult.

[specialsauce]

Everyone knew Payne sucked ass this year. We knew at the trade deadline we needed a steady playmaker off the bench and a solid 4.

We sat on our ass and got complacent for what I must conclude are cheap ass Sarver reasons, and then we didn’t have the tools in the bag to do anything different when someone was able to alter our game.

[Shabazz]

You guys are misremembering. The one thing Payne had this year was good chemistry with Javale.

He also seemed to find himself during that period when CP was injured and then as soon as CP got back, Payne went back to playing like a turd. It's crazy that the guy who won us playoff games last year was so completely unplayable during this playoff run.

[specialsauce]

Shamet doesn’t offer much that a player at the minimum can’t replace for the most part. I would hope we get off his stupid contract this off-season as well as Craig’s one way or another.

[In2ition]

One other thing on Payne…I went back to check what his plus/minus was last year with different 2-man combinations…his best net rating was +16.1 when on the court with Dario…his worst was -2.3 with Ayton. So that should’ve been a good indicator he needed a space. He was +12.5 with Frank too. His 2nd lowest was +5.1 with Jae.

This years numbers don’t tell that same story as he was positive with Ayton and was +9.9 with Javale…but that feels a little like we succeeded in spite of him this year. He was positive across the board.

This seems to line up with what I thought about Payne and Saric. I thought that Payne would be hurt the most by the loss of Saric, because Payne isn't a distributor really. Saric is a connector and helps with the control and distribution of the offense, while opening paths for Payne, since Saric doesn't do all his work in the Post. Payne needs a connector on the floor with him that can also open the lane up for him.

[Nodack]

I don’t know what happened in game seven. That was not the Suns we saw all year and it was written on their faces from the start of the game. Obviously team chemistry was seriously F’ed up. It sounds like Ayton was at the center of whatever dissent that was going on in the locker room but, we still don’t know for sure.

They won more games than any other team during the regular season and it wasn’t even close. Like many of you I don’t really know what to make of it. I do think it’s unwise to assume everyone just sucked, get pissed off and think we need to trade everyone. The Suns got close before and panicked with the Shaq trade and we have sucked ever since until this rebirth.

The team was on cruise control and winning all season even with a ton of injuries. Their team chemistry was off the charts. That isn’t an easy accomplishment. It happens once a decade at most. Wholesale roster changes means wholesale changes to everything and odds are that isn’t going to make us better. We will just complain that those changes were the wrong after we lose. We had our shot and missed. No where to go but down now.

[In2ition]

That Bill Simmons tweet really said it. The Suns were 70-20 going into Game 3 and all of a sudden out of nowhere CP3 never looked the same and they lost 4 of the next 5 games. It was upside-down world.

[Nodack]

This melt down was a lot more than just Paul imo.

[specialsauce]

Head of the snake

[Superbone]

I’m still at a loss about the whole thing…

I know. We were horrible defensively. It was like our soul was collectively sucked out before the game. It's kind of inexplicable.

[Indy]

Shamet doesn’t offer much that a player at the minimum can’t replace for the most part. I would hope we get off his stupid contract this off-season as well as Craig’s one way or another.

Minimum guards are what we had with Galloway last year. They are not usually 6-4 and play average to slightly above average defense while shooting 37% from 3 on volume in limited minutes. I agree that Shamet shouldn't be the person you count on to be your best backup PG and your best backup SG. But he is much better than a minimum guard. Minimum salary guards are guys like former Suns Jevon Carter and Danuel House and current Sun Elfrid Payton.

[Indy]

I’m still at a loss about the whole thing…

I know. We were horrible defensively. It was like our soul was collectively sucked out before the game. It's kind of inexplicable.

We were not a team going into Game 7.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Off the wall idea of the day (that I think works)..

Cam Payne & Ayton sign and trade to Charlotte for Terry Rozier and the 13th pick. Use the 13th pick on Mark Williams from Duke.

This isnt near enough value for Ayton, and I'm saying this as probably his biggest hater lol.

I'm perplexed by this. Seems like people are simultaneously underrating and overrating Ayton. He's not worth the max, but I'm only taking back a superstar in a S&T.. How does that make sense?

In defense of my idea, even though it's not possible, Terry Rozier is really damn good and he'd provide an easy transition post-Chris Paul. I also like Mark Williams a lot as a draft prospect, maybe more than most. I see a pretty clear path for him to be at Ayton's current level after his 4th season in the NBA.