Suns Trade For Beal!

[TOO]

[INFORMER]

I really think people hablve forgotten how good a healthy Beal is. Just a couple years removed from 30ppg. Always had better than average efficiency on all levels. He's such a massive upgrade from Paul offensively, and now he's the 3rd wheel, he should have his way here.

All of that can be true and you still wouldn't have addressed his performance on the defensive end. And now we're going to have him chasing point guards?

[TOO]

I really think people hablve forgotten how good a healthy Beal is. Just a couple years removed from 30ppg. Always had better than average efficiency on all levels. He's such a massive upgrade from Paul offensively, and now he's the 3rd wheel, he should have his way here.

All of that can be true and you still wouldn't have addressed his performance on the defensive end. And now we're going to have him chasing point guards?

Which PG is gonna guard him? It goes both ways. Yeah he's not going to be very good at the point of attack, I'll let Vogel and his system figure that out.

[INFORMER]

We should learned from the D'Antoni era that the whole "they have to guard us too" isn't a championship strategy.

[TOO]

Vogel is a very good defensive coach. MDA was not.

[virtual9mm]

I really think people hablve forgotten how good a healthy Beal is. Just a couple years removed from 30ppg. Always had better than average efficiency on all levels. He's such a massive upgrade from Paul offensively, and now he's the 3rd wheel, he should have his way here.

All of that can be true and you still wouldn't have addressed his performance on the defensive end. And now we're going to have him chasing point guards?

I worry about this, too. Going to have to channel Ron Harper a bit. I suspect that Goodwin will get some burn against the quickest PGs. Or Gordon can come in and wear down the opposing PG.

With the newfound depth, you'll have to have our stars play all out for 30 mpf while their backups play 18 minutes of balls to the wall basketball.

[virtual9mm]

We should learned from the D'Antoni era that the whole "they have to guard us too" isn't a championship strategy.

Don't think this is what they are planning, this is just hyperbole.

[wpmiller42]

I love Nash and Amare, but I think Booker, KD, and Beal are multiple steps above them as defenders.

[Shabazz]

I really think people hablve forgotten how good a healthy Beal is. Just a couple years removed from 30ppg. Always had better than average efficiency on all levels. He's such a massive upgrade from Paul offensively, and now he's the 3rd wheel, he should have his way here.

All of that can be true and you still wouldn't have addressed his performance on the defensive end. And now we're going to have him chasing point guards?

I worry about this, too. Going to have to channel Ron Harper a bit. I suspect that Goodwin will get some burn against the quickest PGs. Or Gordon can come in and wear down the opposing PG.

With the newfound depth, you'll have to have our stars play all out for 30 mpf while their backups play 18 minutes of balls to the wall basketball.

Goodwin and Okogie are two of the better point of attack defenders at their size.

[Split T]

Ya I’m starting to think Okogie or Goodwin might start.

Booker/Beal/Okogie/KD/Ayton
Payne/Gordon/Yuta/KBD/Eubanks
Goodwin/Lee/Todd/Ish/Metu

If Okogie can play the whole season like he did for those 2 months, we’d have a really nice lineup. I’m very intrigued to see how good Goodwin is as well.

[INFORMER]

Vogel is a very good defensive coach. MDA was not.

You still have to have guys that can and will execute the scheme. I'm not saying he absolutely doesn't have that here, but I think there is enough there for a moderate level of concern.

[INFORMER]

We should learned from the D'Antoni era that the whole "they have to guard us too" isn't a championship strategy.

Don't think this is what they are planning, this is just hyperbole.

I didn't say that is what "they" are planning. That was specifically referring to TOO's response to the questions I was raising about Beal's defense.

[TOO]

Vogel is a very good defensive coach. MDA was not.

You still have to have guys that can and will execute the scheme. I'm not saying he absolutely doesn't have that here, but I think there is enough there for a moderate level of concern.

Sure, but even with Paul's corpse and the rest of what they rolled out last year, they were a top 10 defense. I think they've got a better base and a better coach now. Sure Beal hasn't ever had to be a POA defender nightly, but I trust Vogel to hide that issue well enough.

Basically I'm just gonna trust the elite defensive coach to scheme up something that covers his deficiencies.

[LazarusLong]

Vogel is a very good defensive coach. MDA was not.

You still have to have guys that can and will execute the scheme. I'm not saying he absolutely doesn't have that here, but I think there is enough there for a moderate level of concern.

I'm reminded how many thought Skiles was a good defensive coach.
One of the players asked about his defensive schemes, and replied that Skiles would see who the hottest opposition player was that night, and assign Cliff Robinson to guard him. Other than that, nothing special.

Not saying that Vogel is that way. But coaching reputations sometimes can be, uh, exaggerated.

[INFORMER]

Ya I’m starting to think Okogie or Goodwin might start.

Starting Okogie is fine, but if you are going to start him, that makes KD the starter at the 4. Not crazy about that over an 82-game season. If you start Goodwin, that bumps Booker into the frontcourt. Again, not crazy about that either. I still think KBD is the best option to start, and we'll just have to hope Beal is up to defending at a higher level.

[AmareIsGod]

Vogel is a very good defensive coach. MDA was not.

You still have to have guys that can and will execute the scheme. I'm not saying he absolutely doesn't have that here, but I think there is enough there for a moderate level of concern.

I'm reminded how many thought Skiles was a good defensive coach.
One of the players asked about his defensive schemes, and replied that Skiles would see who the hottest opposition player was that night, and assign Cliff Robinson to guard him. Other than that, nothing special.

Not saying that Vogel is that way. But coaching reputations sometimes can be, uh, exaggerated.

Vogel has actually demonstrated, with success as an NBA coach, that he's more than reputation. Skiles was just a gritty and fiery guy. I think he was given that label because of that, along with being a hard ass.

[BKinSJC]

Vogel's Indiana teams were almost always very good defensively. Some of that can be attributed to Roy Hibbert being Rudy Gobert-before-Gobert for a few years, but there were also teams that were basically just Paul George and a bunch of guys that were still top-5 defensive teams. 2015-16 is kind of instructive: George and a rookie Myles Turner as the defensive mainstays, and then guys like Monta Ellis, Jordan Hill and Ian Mahinmi playing big minutes. That bunch finished 3rd in defensive rating for the season.

His championship Lakers team had LeBron and AD healthy for most of the season (interrupted as it was by COVID), and obviously played great defensively. But the following year both those guys missed significant time, and the team was still #1 in defensive rating; Dennis Schroder, Kyle Kuzma, KCP and Montrezl Harrell (!!) led that team in minutes played on the season.

I think Vogel's reputation as a defensive strategist is probably mostly deserved. Hopefully he can figure things out and get this team to buy in. I don't think it's any coincidence that the vet minimum guys that have been added and re-signed are all pretty much long, switchable players or guys with rim defense. It's going to be a focus.

[virtual9mm]

Ya I’m starting to think Okogie or Goodwin might start.

Booker/Beal/Okogie/KD/Ayton
Payne/Gordon/Yuta/KBD/Eubanks
Goodwin/Lee/Todd/Ish/Metu

If Okogie can play the whole season like he did for those 2 months, we’d have a really nice lineup. I’m very intrigued to see how good Goodwin is as well.

I can see a change of pace lineup thar strangles the other team defensively.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm more interested in who's finishing games, and I think it'll be Gordon, Yuta, or KBD far more often than Okogie.

[Split T]

Ya I would agree with that. Don’t think Okogie should be finishing games unless we very specifically need his defense on a certain guy.