Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:

Split T wrote:Kevin Garnett with the Celtics? He wasn't just a defensive player, but that was his biggest contribution.

Tyson Chandler was a major piece in the Mavs title.

Duncan was mostly a defensive anchor during the Spurs last title.

This isn't supposed to be an endorsement of JJJ or Bamba, it just seems like you're writing off defense as an important skill.

Come on. None of the guys you mentioned were defensive anchors. They all had tremendous offensive abilities, with the exception of Chandler. If you’re not the first, second, or third best player on the team, you’re not important enough to talk about (Chandler). I’m not looking to draft a Tyson Chandler on the Mavs. I’m looking to draft a Dirk Nowitzki on the Mavs. Or a James Harden on the Rockets, nobody is saying the Rockets are who they are because of Capela. We’re talking about drafting a franchise player to put alongside Booker and we are drafting high enough where that expectation is reality.

The gap between Ayton/Bagley and JJJ is so large on offense that his supposed defensive skills don’t nearly make up for it. He won’t be a top 3 player on a team. He is the second coming of Nerlens Noel with a 3 pointer, if you look at their stats in college they are the same.

I'm not advocating for drafting JJJ or Bamba over Ayton/Bagley. I just don't think defensive anchors are incredibly overrated. Houston is the best team in the league right now and they have one. Obviously he's not as important as harden or even cp3, but he's a very important piece. And ya, we'd all love to draft a harden or nowitzki, but there's no guarantee one of those guys is in this draft or that we are even in position to draft one. If there's not a franchise star available, you just have to take the best player. What do you suggest we do if we land 4th and Ayton/Doncic/Bagley are gone?

Also, as much as we think we know how good these players are going to be in the NBA, we are very often wrong. Who thought Donovan Mitchell was going to be the best player from this draft class and a potential star? Who saw potential stardom from Booker when he was in college?

Maybe JJJ gets to the NBA and it turns out Michigan State just didn't know how to utilize him properly. They played him out of position at the 4 and told him to just shoot. Maybe he has more off the dribble game than we think. It's not out of the question, people thought Markkanen was just a shooter, a Ryan Anderson clone, but he's shown more offensive versatility and looks like a solid pick.

Again, I have Ayton/Doncic/Bagley ahead of JJJ/Carter/Bamba/Porter, but I won't be surprised if 5 years from now a player or two from that later group is better than one from the former group.

ShelC wrote:I want no parts of JJJ. Bagley or Ayton. If it's Bagley. Take a later pick or a future protected one and get rid of Chriss. No one is taking Knight but I'd try and include him as well. But you can't go into the season with Chriss, Bagley and Bender. Actually, McD would and it would cause a ton of issues like we've had. So yea, we'll probably do that.

ShelC wrote:I want no parts of JJJ. Bagley or Ayton. If it's Bagley. Take a later pick or a future protected one and get rid of Chriss. No one is taking Knight but I'd try and include him as well. But you can't go into the season with Chriss, Bagley and Bender. Actually, McD would and it would cause a ton of issues like we've had. So yea, we'll probably do that.

The Bobster wrote:Why would a college player want to drop in the draft in order to be picked by a team like the Suns?

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: Maybe it's that bad instinct fans have about their own local team/player where they've seen him more than other players and therefore know his flaws and warts too well, so they undervalue that player.

carey wrote: I am not the biggest Ayton fan. I saw a lot of him and he never really wow'ed me. He's a zero on defense despite his prodigious athleticism

INFORMER wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: Maybe it's that bad instinct fans have about their own local team/player where they've seen him more than other players and therefore know his flaws and warts too well, so they undervalue that player.

See Markkanen, Lauri.

INFORMER wrote:

carey wrote: I am not the biggest Ayton fan. I saw a lot of him and he never really wow'ed me. He's a zero on defense despite his prodigious athleticism

Wow, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. He moves his feet really well on defense and does well in defending away from the basket instead of just sitting in the paint and allow his man or guards pick and pop.

Honestly, Bagley is worse on the defensive end than Ayton, and it really isn't even close.

LazarusLong wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

carey wrote: I am not the biggest Ayton fan. I saw a lot of him and he never really wow'ed me. He's a zero on defense despite his prodigious athleticism

Wow, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. He moves his feet really well on defense and does well in defending away from the basket instead of just sitting in the paint and allow his man or guards pick and pop.

Honestly, Bagley is worse on the defensive end than Ayton, and it really isn't even close.

Physically, Ayton reminds me of young Hakeem, except Ayton is about two inches taller. He's also ahead of Hakeem at this stage (19/freshman) as far as basketball development.

LazarusLong wrote:"Wasn't Hakeem also a soccer goalie when he was growing up, before basketball?"
Yes, he was a top goalie in high school and also was solid as a team handball player (as was Dirk Nowitzki as a youth in Germany).

LazarusLong wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

carey wrote: I am not the biggest Ayton fan. I saw a lot of him and he never really wow'ed me. He's a zero on defense despite his prodigious athleticism

Wow, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. He moves his feet really well on defense and does well in defending away from the basket instead of just sitting in the paint and allow his man or guards pick and pop.

Honestly, Bagley is worse on the defensive end than Ayton, and it really isn't even close.

Physically, Ayton reminds me of young Hakeem, except Ayton is about two inches taller. He's also ahead of Hakeem at this stage (19/freshman) as far as basketball development.

In2ition wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:"Wasn't Hakeem also a soccer goalie when he was growing up, before basketball?"
Yes, he was a top goalie in high school and also was solid as a team handball player (as was Dirk Nowitzki as a youth in Germany).

I think we found the key training tools for kids of size in their formative years.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

LazarusLong wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

carey wrote: I am not the biggest Ayton fan. I saw a lot of him and he never really wow'ed me. He's a zero on defense despite his prodigious athleticism

Wow, I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. He moves his feet really well on defense and does well in defending away from the basket instead of just sitting in the paint and allow his man or guards pick and pop.

Honestly, Bagley is worse on the defensive end than Ayton, and it really isn't even close.

Physically, Ayton reminds me of young Hakeem, except Ayton is about two inches taller. He's also ahead of Hakeem at this stage (19/freshman) as far as basketball development.

I see KAT 2.0. Maybe I'm guilty of only really knowing Hakeem throughout his best years because I was like 5 when he was in college, but he's the best defensive big man of all time.