Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 3:19 pm

KAT has been in the conference finals in back to back years

He's got that guy in your avatar playing pretty good defense next to him. Too bad we never had a shot at him.

(What I wouldn't give for a do-over and to not do any of the "Big Three" trades.)

Don’t we have that defender in Dunn?

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 4:18 pm

Don’t we have that defender in Dunn?

Sure, but we need more.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 1:39 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:54 am

I don't hate KAT (maybe would have been a better trade for Ayton than Nurk was, for example). But I don't think it is possible to build a playoff-caliber defense around Booker and KAT. I think teams would just put those two in pick-and-rolls and score on us at will. IMO KAT would be more effective if our other top star had been a plus defender, like SGA or younger Lebron or somebody like that.

I could see it working if we were strong defensively everywhere else. Plus, with Booker putting more work in on the defensive side.

The problem is Booker stopped putting in work on the defensive side.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 6:37 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 1:39 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:54 am

I don't hate KAT (maybe would have been a better trade for Ayton than Nurk was, for example). But I don't think it is possible to build a playoff-caliber defense around Booker and KAT. I think teams would just put those two in pick-and-rolls and score on us at will. IMO KAT would be more effective if our other top star had been a plus defender, like SGA or younger Lebron or somebody like that.

I could see it working if we were strong defensively everywhere else. Plus, with Booker putting more work in on the defensive side.

The problem is Booker stopped putting in work on the defensive side.

He did it for the olympic team last summer. If we had a better overall team with any kind of defensive scheme, he'd probably be more willing to put the work in.

We have one or two plus defenders on the roster, a few mediocre defenders, and a lot of bad defenders. Booker, I love him, but in this case JeremyG is right: he isn't a naturally good defender and doesn't seem interested in putting in the work to be better on that end of the floor. I don't think you want to pair Booker with another starter known to be a poor defender. IMO Book + KAT would be a defensive nightmare, plus I can't imagine them busting their ass for our new coach given what close friends they are. You would basically need the following to make a Book + KAT starting lineup a strong defensive lineup:

PG - prime Gary Payton
SG - Booker
SF - Dunn
PF - prime Kevin Garnett
C - KAT

You guys aren’t wrong, but you’re still trying to build a contender over night…we aren’t going to win a championship next year…just build a fun team that plays hard.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 6:58 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 6:37 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 1:39 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 11:54 am

I don't hate KAT (maybe would have been a better trade for Ayton than Nurk was, for example). But I don't think it is possible to build a playoff-caliber defense around Booker and KAT. I think teams would just put those two in pick-and-rolls and score on us at will. IMO KAT would be more effective if our other top star had been a plus defender, like SGA or younger Lebron or somebody like that.

I could see it working if we were strong defensively everywhere else. Plus, with Booker putting more work in on the defensive side.

The problem is Booker stopped putting in work on the defensive side.

He did it for the olympic team last summer. If we had a better overall team with any kind of defensive scheme, he'd probably be more willing to put the work in.

Then why didn’t he do it last season? Wasn’t that what Vogel was supposedly known for? Having a defensive scheme?

The defense was actually kinda good with Vogel

Split T wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 01, 2025 8:15 pm

You guys aren’t wrong, but you’re still trying to build a contender over night…we aren’t going to win a championship next year…just build a fun team that plays hard.

Plus, whatever young guys we do get will develop better on a 45 win team with an identity than they would on a 45 win team that is coasting. Building young guys like Dunn would give us some heart and some assets.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 6:16 am

The defense was actually kinda good with Vogel

As a team, yes. I wasn’t trying to knock Vogel, just Booker.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:08 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 6:16 am

The defense was actually kinda good with Vogel

As a team, yes. I wasn’t trying to knock Vogel, just Booker.

And Booker was part of that team.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:13 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:08 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 6:16 am

The defense was actually kinda good with Vogel

As a team, yes. I wasn’t trying to knock Vogel, just Booker.

And Booker was part of that team.

And his defensive rating was worse than the previous season. In fact, it has gotten worse every season since 2021-22.

Defensive rating means absolutely nothing.

It matches the eye test. He stopped trying in 2022. He’s not the player he used to be, on both ends, but especially the defensive end.

Matches your eye test, but you’ve had some real hater glasses on for Booker lately.

Booker has never been a great defender. He’s had moments where he’s been good(2023 playoffs comes to mind).

But the point of the conversation was a Book/KAT team defensively and whether or not it could work with the right scheme. Booker has proven he can be a part of a good defense in the past. That’s all. Doesn’t mean he will be good in the future, but the possibility is there.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:50 am

Matches your eye test, but you’ve had some real hater glasses on for Booker lately.

Booker has never been a great defender. He’s had moments where he’s been good(2023 playoffs comes to mind).

But the point of the conversation was a Book/KAT team defensively and whether or not it could work with the right scheme. Booker has proven he can be a part of a good defense in the past. That’s all. Doesn’t mean he will be good in the future, but the possibility is there.

I was replying to Superbone saying Booker would have to put more work in defensively, and I don’t see that happening. Especially playing with KAT. 36 unbothered? You ain’t seen nothing till you see 33 unbothered.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 6:16 am

The defense was actually kinda good with Vogel

It must have been. I don't remember it being horrible like last year. I don't remember bad defense standing out.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 9:08 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 02, 2025 6:16 am

The defense was actually kinda good with Vogel

As a team, yes. I wasn’t trying to knock Vogel, just Booker.

We know your target. Anybody not in the Deandre Ayton camp.