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Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:24 pm
by Cap
I'm getting all nostalgic over Tolliver. Greatest Sun ever. We shouldn't even wait for him to retire, put him in the Ring of Honor right now.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:49 am
by LazarusLong
Cap wrote:I'm getting all nostalgic over Tolliver. Greatest Sun ever. We shouldn't even wait for him to retire, put him in the Ring of Honor right now.
I think the holiday eggnog is kicking in, old friend ...
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:44 am
by Mori Chu
You can't expect much back for Knight. That trade I listed isn't far off from what we can probably get for a bench chucker guard on a multi-year contract. We might be able to get a 2nd-round pick with the deal, but no way do we get a 1st in any Brandon Knight trade. If we did, it'd be a McDo Miracle.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:07 pm
by Split T
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:You can't expect much back for Knight. That trade I listed isn't far off from what we can probably get for a bench chucker guard on a multi-year contract. We might be able to get a 2nd-round pick with the deal, but no way do we get a 1st in any Brandon Knight trade. If we did, it'd be a McDo Miracle.
I know we won't get much for Knight, but tolliver and collison do absolutely nothing for us. We'd essentially be giving him away for free, which I know many here would be in favor of, but not me. He's still young, still talented, and not really hurting us right now. We don't need the salary cap room he's taking up, he was moved to the bench to free up Booker already, he's not the reason bender and Chriss don't get minutes, and he's not causing problems in the locker room. He's not helping us win games, but we don't really need to be winning games right now.
Personally, I'd hang on to him until he starts playing better and we get a decent offer. Mid 1st round level prospect or pick is what I'd be hoping for. That could be the trade deadline or maybe the summer.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:11 pm
by carey
Thoughts on this?
It's kind of how I feel about Watson, his hiring, and how he's performed as a coach so far. The author pretty much nailed my thoughts so I'm wondering if many of you feel the same way.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:01 pm
by Mori Chu
Oh my god, that thread is music to my ears. It is so correct and right down to the last detail. It does a great job describing how horrible Watson is. He has to go ASAP.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:13 pm
by Superbone
carey wrote:Thoughts on this?
It's kind of how I feel about Watson, his hiring, and how he's performed as a coach so far. The author pretty much nailed my thoughts so I'm wondering if many of you feel the same way.
What I get out of that thread is how impatient Suns fans are and how the outsiders maybe better see the big picture. For example:
[–]Raptorspleasefeedthedino 145 points 1 day ago
What a premature, hyperbolic claim.
You guys are obviously showcasing your vets for trades. McDonough has even said the plan is to play the kids. Watson has talked about it. Why else would there be such a disconnect from talk and action, if not to boost trade value? And Watson has done very well in this regard, jacking up the value of all your vets except Brandon Knight, who seems to be terrible through no one else's fault but his own.
For the assists stats, how much of that has to do with having iso-heavy combo guards in Bledsoe and Knight running your offense? Neither of them has ever been truly great at being pure point guards. Your iso frequency has only ticked up marginally since last year, from 6.4% to 8.0%. You guys pass the ball more per game than the Warriors, but the passing isn't effective.
From the Bright Side of the Suns blog:
Is it that Earl Watson isn’t even designing plays at all? No. Is it that Watson’s “plays” are “give it one of the top 4 guys and clear out”? No.
But is the offense extremely simple, aimed at creating the right shots no matter how they get there? Maybe.
Watson has said that he wants the Suns to take the most efficient shots on the floor, which are at the rim and from behind the three-point line. But his top playmakers really like the mid-range, including Booker now, so Watson is taking what he can get without crimping his best players’ pride.
As for development, Watson has started Booker over Knight. He's started Warren over Tucker until Warren got sick. He's started Marquese Chriss at the 4 despite a massive fouling problem, and he's let him play through a lot of mistakes.
Warren is having a breakout season, Booker is slowly putting it together, and Len seems to be improving. Yeah Bender and Ulis might not be seeing the floor just yet but Watson has a lot of players to juggle.
Maybe wait till after the trade deadline and even better, till the end of the year, before you write off your coach.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:32 pm
by carey
I respect your position Bone, but as has been said, you don't need to showcase guys. These are long time vets that aren't injured. They've logged plenty of minutes already this season. Teams know what they are getting if they trade for Chandler, Tucker, Knight or even Bledsoe at this point.
Also, I guess I disagree with the last line in the reddit thread. I have no idea if he'll ever be good or not. I'm not willing to say he's going to be a shitty head coach for the rest of his life. He may be the next Popovich for all I know. I just know he's doing a bad job right now.
Also that Raptors fan notes that he's started Chriss in spite of that massive fouling problem and lets him learn through his mistakes. Yet he doesn't do the same for Bender? And that's not a giant negative? I can't imagine what's going through Bender's head because I have no idea what Chriss has done to earn it that Bender hasn't.
Yes, Watson has "a lot of players to juggle" but he's not juggling them at all. He's riding the same guys heavy minutes almost every game to little or no effect.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:46 pm
by Superbone
I'm not saying that that particular guy has all the answers either. We'll see. I'd like to at least let one season play out for Watson. If after the trade deadline, nobody gets traded and we continue to play the same rotations, then I'll be as puzzled as the next guy. It just doesn't make any sense. Both McDonough and Watson say the young guys and particularly Bender need to get playing time and then he barely plays the next two games.
I respect your position as well carey. I don't even know what my position even IS at this point. I know that we both want what is best for the team. Let's hope it happens! I don't think this team is going anywhere with Bleds and Knight running the point.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:12 am
by EDC
Source:
Len has done a really good job on defense this year even with how porous our guards have been.
Pretty sure Chandler has just given up on anything besides rebounds. He rarely challenges anyone at the rim.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:21 am
by Hermen
Imagine if 76ers drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor... People would be mad at draft day, but as it stands, they'd have one sick front-court pair on both ends.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:45 am
by JCSunsfan
EDC wrote:
Source:
Len has done a really good job on defense this year even with how porous our guards have been.
Pretty sure Chandler has just given up on anything besides rebounds. He rarely challenges anyone at the rim.
Absolutely fascinating chart.
Observations:
Embiid is a beast
Sabonis must be a good body defender even though he doesn't get alot of blocks.
Brook Lopez is a better defender than I thought.
Interesting to see Ibaka, Horford, Okafor, and Biyombo all about the same.
Wow, Tyson. Where did you go? Defending on the same level as KLove is not something to be proud of. This chart is telling me that Channing Frye is a better defensive center than Tyson Chandler (aside from rebounding). Now I really want to trade Chandler.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:40 pm
by carey
Rebounding is important too though. And Tyson has had some monster games. He has value but part of the problem is guards are constantly beating B & B off the dribble & he is a little long in the tooth to cover for them consistently. Teams still want him. He would do well in Houston & I would take Montrezl and an expiring for him. I've been a fan since his freshman year (legal issues not withstanding) and I think a hustling big man with talent would help Chriss & Bender along some.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:58 pm
by Danimal
this is a really good article from bright side on the how predictable and unvaried the suns offense is and its even worse than last year on that front.
The hot potato analogy around the 3pt line is spot on
Previously it was said we ran simple sets since the players didn't get anything more complicated. Time goes by and it only seems to get worse...perhaps time to part with those semi-vet players who don't 'get it', since they are paid to 'get it'
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/ ... or-success
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:59 pm
by Danimal
Derrick Jones everyone!
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:26 pm
by O_Gardino
Danimal wrote:Derrick Jones everyone!
Well, that was fun.
Re: Suns News: Week 9 12/19-12/25
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:02 am
by Mori Chu
When I was flying from San Jose to Seattle, there was a player from the Northern Arizona Suns D-League team on my flight. He stood right in front of me in the security line. Probably about 6'4", black guy, had a NAS Suns backpack and a lot of athletic apparel on. Didn't know who he was from his face; nobody who has been on the NBA roster. I tried to look him up but couldn't find a page with face photos of the current D-league team roster. Is there such a web page out there?