Phx-Suns.Net

According to some, Knight had his best season of his career last year. He was playing fine, but got his position stole from him by the franchise pushing Booker. He clearly couldn't handle being subjected to the bench role. He also couldn't elevate his play and gradually started losing his playing time. He plays better with more minutes, so what if they inserted him back into the starting lineup to increase his value before the trade deadline and allow him to get 20 shots a game?

The Kings just lost 20 ppg....

I think the bad influence of Knight was meant as bad influence on the style of play, not any character issues. I remember Diaw saying once how unsanctioned ball hogging can become contagious, because if others do it and get away with it, you either join them or do nothing on offense.

His style of play is contrary to what we want from our team. (Granted, Bledsoe does a lot of the same thing, albeit more effectively.) That style of play is detrimental to our team. I am not saying he is a locker room cancer or that his attitude is bad and we need separation from the team.

Hermen wrote:I think the bad influence of Knight was meant as bad influence on the style of play, not any character issues. I remember Diaw saying once how unsanctioned ball hogging can become contagious, because if others do it and get away with it, you either join them or do nothing on offense.

This. Thank you Hermen.

Split T wrote:I just don't see the negative influence he is having. Unless you mean negative influence on our winning percentage. His play has caused us to lose games, but he's been fine attitude wise.

He has a negative influence because of his style of play can rub off on other players.

Imo it already has. Booker this season has developed many Knight like qualities. Tyler Ulis is now looking to chuck the ball because he wants to get $15M/yr like Knight did.

Anyone see Gambo's tweet that nobody wants Knight because he's the worst player in basketball history analytically?

I think McDonough's procrastination of waiting to trade Knight rather than dealing him last season or at least summer is gonna end up costing the Suns. Idiot.

Hermen nailed it. Knight is a bad influence on our play because he is a me-first player. We must purge all such players from our roster. Bledsoe sometimes goes into 1-on-1 mode, but it's to a much more moderate degree than with Knight. And you can survive one ball-dominant guy a lot more easily than two.

We've played essentially the same style of offense since we fired gentry. Our lack of "team play" and assists is not knights fault. We've been a bottom 5 team in assists ever since Gentry left. Our offensive philosophy has been get two dynamic guards who can attack the defense and run pnr on both sides of the court to keep the defense off balance. Knight has been doing what he was brought here to do, albeit he is doing it very poorly this year. We don't even play knight anymore and our offense hasn't really changed. The change in philosophy needs to come first for a change in personel to be effective.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Hermen nailed it. Knight is a bad influence on our play because he is a me-first player. We must purge all such players from our roster. Bledsoe sometimes goes into 1-on-1 mode, but it's to a much more moderate degree than with Knight. And you can survive one ball-dominant guy a lot more easily than two.

The funny thing about Knight is that he doesn't seem to be a "me first" type of person. He seems to be a genuine team guy in the locker room. He just learned only one way to play and he cannot seem to change.

This team does not have an identity in its style of play. They want to run, but Bledsoe is not a running pg. They want to be a defensive team, but they do not play very good D. They do not share the ball like San Antonio does.

JCSunsfan wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Hermen nailed it. Knight is a bad influence on our play because he is a me-first player. We must purge all such players from our roster. Bledsoe sometimes goes into 1-on-1 mode, but it's to a much more moderate degree than with Knight. And you can survive one ball-dominant guy a lot more easily than two.

The funny thing about Knight is that he doesn't seem to be a "me first" type of person. He seems to be a genuine team guy in the locker room. He just learned only one way to play and he cannot seem to change.

This team does not have an identity in its style of play. They want to run, but Bledsoe is not a running pg. They want to be a defensive team, but they do not play very good D. They do not share the ball like San Antonio does.

Again, it was not a well built team, and hasn't been in a long, long time.

Let me add that I don't blame Knight for the iso offense, I was just explaining why he is viewed as a bad influence. As far as I'm concerned, the front office is practically always to blame. They need a vision of how they want to play, and be on the same page (coach, gm, owner). Then if a player is not following that vision, coach benches him and gm finds someone who does. And if the front office doesn't know how they want the team to play, how are the players supposed to? Then everybody's trying something different. This is why I really like what Houston did - they were the pace and threes team for a while now, only natural to get D'Antoni for it, right?

And while I'm "ranting"... showcasing a player for a trade is something you can do only when you're tearing a team down, not when you're trying to build something. Much more so if the player in question does not play the way you want the team to play. Otherwise you're just messing with the heads of players you place your future hopes in and wasting their time - rookie contracts aren't that long. I'm sure Pop would never play someone just to showcase him. You don't play his way? Have a seat. And he raises the value of players like no other.

I'm not sure I buy the bad influence line of thinking. The other players are big boys. I don't think they see Knight chucking and come out saying, "well he's doing it, so I'm gonna get mine..." The way I see it there are two issues:

1. Knight's not very good at the role we gave him this year. There's nothing wrong with being a gunner off the bench. Barbosa thrived in that role for us. Guys like Eric Gordon, Jamal Crawford, etc. are well liked by their teammates and fans because they... hit shots and score. Knight's been an extremely inefficient scorer this year.
2. Knight fancies himself as a point guard despite the fact that he has no PG instincts, is a poor passer and a below average ball-handler.

Basically, he's sucked this year in both his actual role and perceived role. That's why no one likes him. I don't think it's fair to also pin the iso-heavy nature of the offense on him as well.

It's less about bad habits or bad attitude rubbing off on guys (although I think that did happen with M****s Bros and Archie) and more about that dark cloud/negative vibe hanging over the team, in the lockerroom, on the bench. We have a mature group so it's not like Booker, Chriss and Bender are going to start commiserating with Knight and follow his lead. But guys can sense that's something's off, which is a drag and can be a distraction, even a subconscious one. Imagine if we had cut bait with M*****f before last season started. No distractions, no acting out, Hornacek and his coaches maintain their authority, and maybe we win more games.

And FWIW, Knight by all accounts was a fine player and hard worker in Detroit and Milwaukee. His numbers were improving every year in just about every category his first 3 1/2 seasons. He put up decent stats last year (19 and 5 in 36mpg, right there with his averages) tho his percentages were down. Now all of a sudden he can't play?

ShelC wrote: Now all of a sudden he can't play?

I think he's just a bad fit here. I think there's a very good chance he can return to form and even improve someplace else. If M****** B****** can turn himself into a decent role player (52% field 48% from 3 in 16 mpg,) then Knight can easily do the same.

Come on, let's not debate whether chuckers hurt team chemistry. They just do. If the guy next to you is a black hole who never passes back to you if you pass to him, and shoots almost every time he gets the ball, you are going to start passing less, and going to start to look for your own numbers. Guys like Knight have that kind of corrosive effect on a team. Everybody starts hesitating before passing because they don't think they'll ever get the ball back. It's bad.

I don't see how a guy that dominates the ball for over half the shot clock can be effective anywhere. Somebody needs to put a leash on him. Even better, a shock collar.

From Mark Stein on ESPN:

The Clippers have offered a future second-round pick for Suns forward P.J. Tucker -- who is said to have a not-so-secret admirer in Doc Rivers -- but sources say Phoenix is holding out for a first-rounder in exchange for the rugged defensive specialist.

Tucker and out-of-favor guard Brandon Knight are widely regarded as the most "gettable" Suns. Coach Earl Watson announced this week that veteran center Tyson Chandler is "not going anywhere."

LazarusLong wrote:From Mark Stein on ESPN:

The Clippers have offered a future second-round pick for Suns forward P.J. Tucker -- who is said to have a not-so-secret admirer in Doc Rivers -- but sources say Phoenix is holding out for a first-rounder in exchange for the rugged defensive specialist.

Tucker and out-of-favor guard Brandon Knight are widely regarded as the most "gettable" Suns. Coach Earl Watson announced this week that veteran center Tyson Chandler is "not going anywhere."

Yeah, we're not moving Tucker for a 2nd round pick. Especially one in the late half of the 2nd round. He's more valuable with what he does in practice with Booker and the young guys than a player that probably doesn't make the team. I'd maybe consider it if it were one of the top few picks in round 2, but again the Clippers would have to go into serious free-fall for that to happen.

What about Knight for Rudy Gay and Cauley Stein?

MightyMoog wrote:What about Knight for Rudy Gay and Cauley Stein?

I have no problem with that even if Gay opts in next year.