Phx-Suns.Net

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:I thought McDonough was building assets so that he could pull off some Danny Ainge type trade.

That statement was from 5 years ago.

What are our assets?

Where is the trade?

Dragan Bender and Marquese Chriss are our "assets" and we can't trade for a big time player yet because they aren't ready.

Secret is: they will never be ready to add a star with this group because this group blows and has no future outside of booker and jackson

Wait a sec...

specialsauce wrote:

Cap wrote:

Again, it's convenient to think that Kyrie would have been acquired and NO additional moves would have been made.

It's a reasonable assumption, because the proposed trade would have completely stripped us of assets. There'd be nothing left to trade.

That's not true. We'd still have the second of the Miami first rounders, our own first round pick this year, all the second round picks, TJ, Bender, Chriss.

Now personally, I agree with what you seem to be saying in this thread, that Bender and Chriss have very limited trade value at this point. I disagree with what you seem to be saying in that other thread, which is that Bender and Chriss have enough trade value that we could use them to build a "win now" team that Kyrie Irving would have good reason to sign with in 2019. What exactly are you trying to say? Both?

Hey, stop ruining his ranting with coherence and facts!!! Let him spin things, situations, REALITY, the way he needs to.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:I thought McDonough was building assets so that he could pull off some Danny Ainge type trade.

That statement was from 5 years ago.

What are our assets?

Where is the trade?

Dragan Bender and Marquese Chriss are our "assets" and we can't trade for a big time player yet because they aren't ready.

Secret is: they will never be ready to add a star with this group because this group blows and has no future outside of booker and jackson

Wait a sec...

specialsauce wrote:

Cap wrote:

Again, it's convenient to think that Kyrie would have been acquired and NO additional moves would have been made.

It's a reasonable assumption, because the proposed trade would have completely stripped us of assets. There'd be nothing left to trade.

That's not true. We'd still have the second of the Miami first rounders, our own first round pick this year, all the second round picks, TJ, Bender, Chriss.

Now personally, I agree with what you seem to be saying in this thread, that Bender and Chriss have very limited trade value at this point. I disagree with what you seem to be saying in that other thread, which is that Bender and Chriss have enough trade value that we could use them to build a "win now" team that Kyrie Irving would have good reason to sign with in 2019. What exactly are you trying to say? Both?

Hey, stop ruining his ranting with coherence and facts!!! Let him spin things, situations, REALITY, the way he needs to.

He isn't the President.

Cap wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:I thought McDonough was building assets so that he could pull off some Danny Ainge type trade.

That statement was from 5 years ago.

What are our assets?

Where is the trade?

Dragan Bender and Marquese Chriss are our "assets" and we can't trade for a big time player yet because they aren't ready.

Secret is: they will never be ready to add a star with this group because this group blows and has no future outside of booker and jackson

Wait a sec...

specialsauce wrote:

Cap wrote: It's a reasonable assumption, because the proposed trade would have completely stripped us of assets. There'd be nothing left to trade.

That's not true. We'd still have the second of the Miami first rounders, our own first round pick this year, all the second round picks, TJ, Bender, Chriss.

Now personally, I agree with what you seem to be saying in this thread, that Bender and Chriss have very limited trade value at this point. I disagree with what you seem to be saying in that other thread, which is that Bender and Chriss have enough trade value that we could use them to build a "win now" team that Kyrie Irving would have good reason to sign with in 2019. What exactly are you trying to say? Both?

Hey, stop ruining his ranting with coherence and facts!!! Let him spin things, situations, REALITY, the way he needs to.

He isn't the President.

Ah, I love this. See, once you have acquired Kyrie you now have what NONE of these players offer you outside of Booker, a superstar. At that point you now have 2 superstars on the team and can trade your young talent for role players to fit around them. I don't think Chriss or Bender are ever going to turn out to be anything remotely resembling an upper echelon starter, but I do think they could grow into bench players for a solid team. I think they would still have trade value, just not in return for a star. And I certainly don't believe in building and developing a team of bit players and THEN looking for a star. This is a star driven league, you won't win without them. Right now the Suns only have 1 (probably too early to count Jackson out definitively, fair).

For example, do I think the Jazz would accept a trade Derrick Favors in a swap for Marquese, Peters and a second round pick? Yes. Or we could have pursued Mirotic. Our lineup could have been Irving, Booker, Warren, Favors or Mirotic, Len/Chandler. Then we'd have Bender still off the bench, and we'd have our own first round pick this offseason to make another addition.

If we wanted to go all-in, we still probably had enough assets to pull a trade for Blake Griffin.

Marquese, our first round pick, second Miami first round pick.

Irving
Booker
Warren
Griffin
Len

Probably wouldn't win this year, but then we have another offseason to make some additions and it's now much easier to attract FA with that team. You may not be a fan of Griffin, but there's plenty of options still.

Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in presumptions about teams giving us exactly what we want and to the price we set for them.

See what I just did here?

Everyone likes to think that the missed path they wanted to follow would have unfolded easy and fast into a perfect escenario without bumps. Take a look at the Celtics and Clippers this year, things went exactly like they wouldn’t like it, and that doesn’t mean they blew it, it just that you have to set a course without the benefit of hindsight. It’s easy to pretend that just a missed phone calls have prevented us fron becoming a juggernaut, that McD is an idiot while we could swing every deal in the order and timing needed.

You have several valid points, but that doesn’t make it the one and only true path to victory. Your Utah trade for starters, is really off. And having Irving would severely undermine the value of our pick, probably enough to offset the value of your proposed package for Blake. And I’m not sure how that goes without even saying that you just traded Marquese TWICE on your dream. Because to see Griffin available, we would have to wait until this late into the season, but that would mean that we just stood path in one of the only two off-seasons we have with Irving under our control, skipping going for Favors or Mirotic. On every turn, teams have to choose how to invest their resources, without an undo button, and without assurances that teams would be willing to deal with team when it serves us right.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in presumptions about teams giving us exactly what we want and to the price we set for them.

See what I just did here?

Everyone likes to think that the missed path they wanted to follow would have unfolded easy and fast into a perfect escenario without bumps. Take a look at the Celtics and Clippers this year, things went exactly like they wouldn’t like it, and that doesn’t mean they blew it, it just that you have to set a course without the benefit of hindsight. It’s easy to pretend that just a missed phone calls have prevented us fron becoming a juggernaut, that McD is an idiot while we could swing every deal in the order and timing needed.

You have several valid points, but that doesn’t make it the one and only true path to victory. Your Utah trade for starters, is really off. And having Irving would severely undermine the value of our pick, probably enough to offset the value of your proposed package for Blake. And I’m not sure how that goes without even saying that you just traded Marquese TWICE on your dream. Because to see Griffin available, we would have to wait until this late into the season, but that would mean that we just stood path in one of the only two off-seasons we have with Irving under our control, skipping going for Favors or Mirotic. On every turn, teams have to choose how to invest their resources, without an undo button, and without assurances that teams would be willing to deal with team when it serves us right.

Ah sure. Except you're missing the point entirely. Getting Kyrie Irving would have eliminated the most important hypothetical: our ability to put out 2 superstars on the court every night.

In this league if you don't have at least 2 superstars, you're not winning anything. You immediately become a legitimate team who is a group of complementary players away from seriously contending. The most difficult part of that equation is pairing 2 legitimate superstars. You're hoarding all these assets hoping that you can land someone of Kyrie's caliber.

specialsauce wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in presumptions about teams giving us exactly what we want and to the price we set for them.

See what I just did here?

Everyone likes to think that the missed path they wanted to follow would have unfolded easy and fast into a perfect escenario without bumps. Take a look at the Celtics and Clippers this year, things went exactly like they wouldn’t like it, and that doesn’t mean they blew it, it just that you have to set a course without the benefit of hindsight. It’s easy to pretend that just a missed phone calls have prevented us fron becoming a juggernaut, that McD is an idiot while we could swing every deal in the order and timing needed.

You have several valid points, but that doesn’t make it the one and only true path to victory. Your Utah trade for starters, is really off. And having Irving would severely undermine the value of our pick, probably enough to offset the value of your proposed package for Blake. And I’m not sure how that goes without even saying that you just traded Marquese TWICE on your dream. Because to see Griffin available, we would have to wait until this late into the season, but that would mean that we just stood path in one of the only two off-seasons we have with Irving under our control, skipping going for Favors or Mirotic. On every turn, teams have to choose how to invest their resources, without an undo button, and without assurances that teams would be willing to deal with team when it serves us right.

Ah sure. Except you're missing the point entirely. Getting Kyrie Irving would have eliminated the most important hypothetical: our ability to put out 2 superstars on the court every night.

In this league if you don't have at least 2 superstars, you're not winning anything. You immediately become a legitimate team who is a group of complementary players away from seriously contending. The most difficult part of that equation is pairing 2 legitimate superstars. You're hoarding all these assets hoping that you can land someone of Kyrie's caliber.

We would have to differ on Kirye’s caliber, not even with Josh underperforming I regret passing on him.

I also believes, that you have to pair one frontcourt and one backcourt Superstar in order to go all the way, other wise you get exploited on a seven game series if an unfavorable matchup presents. Even Griffin (if not for that franchise-killer contract) would give us a better chance.

As many said, it would be great to get Kevin Love from Cleveland’s firesale, and we would be better served on that 2 Stars pairing path at a fraction of Kirye’s price. I think he wasn’t worthy that much, I’m on the side that think such pairing as another Blazers team. Boston is doing great with Kirye, just as they did with Thomas (twice traded for cap purposes), is not like he turned them around, Coach Stevens is the real SuperStar in Boston

Bahahaha.
https://twitter.com/FOXSportsFL/status/962165472228618241

Don’t let that distract you from the fact that Dwyane Wade sucks.

Flagrant Fowl wrote:Don’t let that distract you from the fact that Dwyane Wade sucks.

But Bledsoe sucks more.

Thomas coming off the bench for the Lakers, and Ball isn't even playing. what a slap in the face for a guy who is 15 games away from 28.9 points per game at 46 percent last season. granted he could use a slap in the face, but mercy, don't magnify that chip on his shoulder.

He needs a fat slice of humble pie. None of his organizations have wanted him. And he’s blamed the rest of the team for his failures at each stop.

specialsauce wrote:And he’s blamed the rest of the team for his failures at each stop.

Except Boston...

1tinsoldier wrote:Thomas coming off the bench for the Lakers

Good. That text his agent sent was ridiculous.

INFORMER wrote:

1tinsoldier wrote:Thomas coming off the bench for the Lakers

Good. That text his agent sent was ridiculous.

Which was?

INFORMER wrote:

specialsauce wrote:And he’s blamed the rest of the team for his failures at each stop.

Except Boston...

True

Superbone wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

1tinsoldier wrote:Thomas coming off the bench for the Lakers

Good. That text his agent sent was ridiculous.

Which was?

Isaiah Thomas‘ agent, in an all-caps text message, made it clear that his client has no intention whatsoever of coming off the bench for the Los Angeles Lakers, where Lonzo Ball remains the starting point guard.

Not only that, but if his new team asked IT to be a reserve, he’d demand a buyout.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/agent-isa ... or-lakers/

INFORMER wrote:

Superbone wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

1tinsoldier wrote:Thomas coming off the bench for the Lakers

Good. That text his agent sent was ridiculous.

Which was?

Isaiah Thomas‘ agent, in an all-caps text message, made it clear that his client has no intention whatsoever of coming off the bench for the Los Angeles Lakers, where Lonzo Ball remains the starting point guard.

Not only that, but if his new team asked IT to be a reserve, he’d demand a buyout.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/agent-isa ... or-lakers/

Ha ha. Thanks INF! That's crazy. Reminds me of when he came here. He always maintained he wanted to start. I mean, I don't blame his thinking. You should always want to start and think you're good enough. But making demands is another thing.

If we was just patient and let his play do the talking, they wouldn't be able to leave him on the bench.

so in retrospect, perhaps it was Thomas and his agent that stirred the boiling pot that Dragic became so motivated to escape from