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Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:39 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:24 pm
My ranking:
1. Satoransky
2. Collison
3. Beverley
4. Rozier
5. Rubio
6. Joseph
7. Wright
8. Hill
9. Jones
10. Grant
I’m not ranking Brogdon or Russell right now because we don’t have the space for them.
a. Split, you have too much free time.
b. If you add a stat req of an avg of 6.5/game on 25-30min/g...who is left standing?
c. One of those articles speaks of a few moves that would supposedly get us to $40M/yr cap space...I'm assuming if we do that...it's for Russell...
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:51 pm
by Split T
I’d sign a pg (Satoransky, Rubio, Rozier, Joseph, Wright) bring back Spalding, and then grab an under the radar guy or two(George King, Alan Williams, Derrick Williams, Jonathan Williams, Troy Williams, Alex Poythress, Chris Singleton) Someone who won’t complain without minutes, but will work hard in practice, play hard when they get a chance, and have potential to carve out a role. I’d keep one of Melton or Okobo around as well, don’t think we can keep both though. Maybe someone likes one of them enough to have them be the sweetener for taking Josh Jackson off our hands.
Let’s say we keep Melton and Spalding, sign Rozier, Singleton and Poythress.
Rozier/Booker/Oubre/Saric/Ayton
Jerome/Tyler/Cam/Bridges/Baynes
Lecque/Melton/Singleton/Poythress/Spalding
I can see wanting a reliable shooting guard in case Booker gets hurt. I think I’d just throw Bridges in as SG in that scenario.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:58 pm
by Split T
Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:39 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:24 pm
My ranking:
1. Satoransky
2. Collison
3. Beverley
4. Rozier
5. Rubio
6. Joseph
7. Wright
8. Hill
9. Jones
10. Grant
I’m not ranking Brogdon or Russell right now because we don’t have the space for them.
a. Split, you have too much free time.
b. If you add a stat req of an avg of 6.5/game on 25-30min/g...who is left standing?
c. One of those articles speaks of a few moves that would supposedly get us to $40M/yr cap space...I'm assuming if we do that...it's for Russell...
Haha, yes sometimes I do.
As for your question, only Russell, Payton, and Rondo averaged over 6.5 assists per game. Dropping down to 5.0 would add Satoransky, Collison, and Rubio.
If you want 6.5 per 36, you get Russell, Rubio, Payton, Collison, Rondo, Jones, and Satoransky.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:11 pm
by Vladimir_Taltos
K....going with your more in depth review...and starting with your list...
1. Russell
2. Rubio
3.Satoransky if we miss 1 and 2
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:03 pm
by In2ition
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:25 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:00 am
Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:11 am
This draft didn't make a lot of sense if they're not trying to position themselves for a top FA...and if we can swing it, Payton is our best move...if they could pull that off...A+ for the staff as an off season grade...
You're talking about Elfrid Payton? The guy we had here a couple seasons ago? The guy we were all ready for him to walk away? Idk what to tell you, but our standards have reached another new low if we think that is an A+ off-season.
He was better in New Orleans last season than he was with us. Still horrible defensively, but his shot is improving.
I always wondered if he cut his hair, would his shot improve?
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:15 pm
by INFORMER
I think Spalding would be a waste of a roster spot.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:17 pm
by specialsauce
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:15 pm
I think Spalding would be a waste of a roster spot.
Agree.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:42 pm
by INFORMER
I think Jordan Bell fits with the roster at this point. He is clueless when it comes to scoring, but he rebounds, blocks shots, plays above the rim, and has decent passing skills. He could round out the bench nicely.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:28 pm
by INFORMER
Theis would be a solid target if the Celtics don't extend a QO to him (I'm not interested in getting into a restricted FA offer sheet situation with him).
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1142579569377054720
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:53 pm
by Superbone
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:25 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:00 am
Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:11 am
This draft didn't make a lot of sense if they're not trying to position themselves for a top FA...and if we can swing it, Payton is our best move...if they could pull that off...A+ for the staff as an off season grade...
You're talking about Elfrid Payton? The guy we had here a couple seasons ago? The guy we were all ready for him to walk away? Idk what to tell you, but our standards have reached another new low if we think that is an A+ off-season.
He was better in New Orleans last season than he was with us. Still horrible defensively, but his shot is improving.
How could it not after getting rid of the hair hat?
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:58 pm
by Superbone
In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:03 pm
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:25 pm
In2ition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:00 am
Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:11 am
This draft didn't make a lot of sense if they're not trying to position themselves for a top FA...and if we can swing it, Payton is our best move...if they could pull that off...A+ for the staff as an off season grade...
You're talking about Elfrid Payton? The guy we had here a couple seasons ago? The guy we were all ready for him to walk away? Idk what to tell you, but our standards have reached another new low if we think that is an A+ off-season.
He was better in New Orleans last season than he was with us. Still horrible defensively, but his shot is improving.
I always wondered if he cut his hair, would his shot improve?
I had no question. It was literally obstructing his view.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:58 pm
by Superbone
specialsauce wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:17 pm
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:15 pm
I think Spalding would be a waste of a roster spot.
Agree.
Double agree.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:40 pm
by INFORMER
Here is something to remember about Brogdon:
In college, Brogdon had surgery to fuse a bone in his left foot, which multiple front-office league sources have indicated drew medical red flags prior to the 2016 draft and could cause issues in the future.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/31/re ... e-to-foot/
Then this season he had a minor tear to his plantar fascia in his right foot.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:13 pm
by Mori Chu
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:18 pm
Alright, I did an in depth statistical study of free agent point guards. I figure we’re looking for 3 things in a pg. Defense, Shooting, Playmaking. I ranked the top 15 in 3 categories: Defensive RPM, TS%, and A/TO ratio. Then I gave 15 points for a first place finish, down to 1 point for a 15th place finish and added it up to find our perfect target. Obviously not perfect, but it was interesting.
1. Pat Beverley- 34 - Finishes top 7 in all 3 categories
2. Tomas Satoransky - 29 - Top 10 in all 3 categories
3. Cory Joseph - 28 - Finishes 2nd in defense and A/TO
4. Darren Collison - 27 - Top 5 in TS and A/TO
5. Tyus Jones - 25 - 1st in A/TO and 6th defensively
6. Malcolm Brogdon - 22 - 1st in TS%
7. Alex Caruso - 22 - Top 5 shooter and defender
8. George Hill - 20 - Top Defender
9. Seth Curry - 19 - Shooting
10. Delon Wright - 18
11. Terry Rozier - 16
12. Ricky Rubio - 12
13. Quinn Cook - 10
14. Jerian Grant - 8
15. Jeremy Lin - 8
16. JJ Barea - 8
17. Derrick Rose - 7
18. Ish Smith - 7
19. Trey Burke - 6
20. D’Angelo Russell - 4
21. Shabazz Napier - 4
22. Rajon Rondo - 3
23. Tyler Johnson - 2
24. Elfrid Payton - 2
25. Emmanuel Mudiay - 1
I appreciate the time it took you to do this ranking. But D'Angelo Russell at #20 with 4 points? He averaged 21 points and 7 assists. Come on.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:02 pm
by Split T
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:13 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:18 pm
Alright, I did an in depth statistical study of free agent point guards. I figure we’re looking for 3 things in a pg. Defense, Shooting, Playmaking. I ranked the top 15 in 3 categories: Defensive RPM, TS%, and A/TO ratio. Then I gave 15 points for a first place finish, down to 1 point for a 15th place finish and added it up to find our perfect target. Obviously not perfect, but it was interesting.
1. Pat Beverley- 34 - Finishes top 7 in all 3 categories
2. Tomas Satoransky - 29 - Top 10 in all 3 categories
3. Cory Joseph - 28 - Finishes 2nd in defense and A/TO
4. Darren Collison - 27 - Top 5 in TS and A/TO
5. Tyus Jones - 25 - 1st in A/TO and 6th defensively
6. Malcolm Brogdon - 22 - 1st in TS%
7. Alex Caruso - 22 - Top 5 shooter and defender
8. George Hill - 20 - Top Defender
9. Seth Curry - 19 - Shooting
10. Delon Wright - 18
11. Terry Rozier - 16
12. Ricky Rubio - 12
13. Quinn Cook - 10
14. Jerian Grant - 8
15. Jeremy Lin - 8
16. JJ Barea - 8
17. Derrick Rose - 7
18. Ish Smith - 7
19. Trey Burke - 6
20. D’Angelo Russell - 4
21. Shabazz Napier - 4
22. Rajon Rondo - 3
23. Tyler Johnson - 2
24. Elfrid Payton - 2
25. Emmanuel Mudiay - 1
I appreciate the time it took you to do this ranking. But D'Angelo Russell at #20 with 4 points? He averaged 21 points and 7 assists. Come on.
It was just how the numbers worked out. I only scored them on DRPM, TS%, and A/TO ratio. He wasn’t very good in those areas. He’s more of a high usage, volume scorer with poor defense and high turnovers. You kinda have to evaluate him differently as he’s a much different player than most on this list. By no means is this perfect.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:15 am
by INFORMER
ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:49 pm
Our biggest weaknesses in the frontcourt revolve around defense and athleticism.
That's where passing on Brandon Clarke hurts. I know you didn't like him, but his combination athleticism, shot-blocking, and savvy doesn't grow on trees. I would love to see him meet at the rim all those guys Ayton neglects on defense. I would love to see him running down and snatching rebounds on both ends.
I wanted him over Hachimura for those reasons. I think Rui ends up being the better player (I think he is going to be a stud, btw), but Clarke would have fit our team better, IMO.
Anyway, this is a free agency thread. You mention Vonleh, who I have always liked, and yes, he could provide some needed rebounding help. But he isn't a rim protector, unfortunately. Dedmon could help, but judging from Lowe's podcast, it sounds like there is a ton of interest in him around the league. He is probably going to be expensive and have better destination options than the Suns.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:24 am
by Ring_Wanted
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:15 am
Dedmon could help, but judging from Lowe's podcast, it sounds like there is a ton of interest in him around the league. He is probably going to be expensive and have better destination options than the Suns.
If you stretch Tyler and Jackson (a combined $8.7M against the cap) while finding takers for Okobo and Melton for nothing (another $3M), we could have 30M in cap space.
If you do your duty and learn that Brogdon won't sign an offer sheet, break those 30M in two contracts. Call Dedmon asap with 4 years starting at $14M and I think you have a pretty good chance. Even get to keep Baynes for a nice and deep PC/C rotation. Then use the rest of the money to sign a vet PG.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:27 am
by INFORMER
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:24 am
Call Dedmon asap with 4 years starting at $14M and I think you have a pretty good chance.
Too much for me. I wouldn't offer more than 3yrs/$33 million.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:32 am
by Ring_Wanted
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:27 am
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:24 am
Call Dedmon asap with 4 years starting at $14M and I think you have a pretty good chance.
Too much for me. I wouldn't offer more than 3yrs/$33 million.
Sure, for me too. But your offer needs to beat the ones from better teams.
Re: Free Agent Targets
Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:50 am
by Superbone
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:15 am
ShelC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:49 pm
Our biggest weaknesses in the frontcourt revolve around defense and athleticism.
That's where passing on Brandon Clarke hurts. I know you didn't like him, but his combination athleticism, shot-blocking, and savvy doesn't grow on trees. I would love to see him meet at the rim all those guys Ayton neglects on defense. I would love to see him running down and snatching rebounds on both ends.
I wanted him over Hachimura for those reasons. I think Rui ends up being the better player (I think he is going to be a stud, btw), but Clarke would have fit our team better, IMO.
Anyway, this is a free agency thread. You mention Vonleh, who I have always liked, and yes, he could provide some needed rebounding help. But he isn't a rim protector, unfortunately. Dedmon could help, but judging from Lowe's podcast, it sounds like there is a ton of interest in him around the league. He is probably going to be expensive and have better destination options than the Suns.
I liked Clarke for the same reasons. I was surprised how far he fell. Thought we were taking him at 11.