Phx-Suns.Net

4-11 in their last 15.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:34 pm

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:30 pm

Even if Monty is throwing in the towel, Ayton should get minutes here.

He probably would be if he hadn't injured his ankle.

He went to check in with 7 minutes left. There was a timeout, then he was gone. He was in the locker room for the rest of the game. Not good.

What was Montys plan tonight? I didn’t see a clear strategy. Didn’t play any weak side defense. There were 2 plays ran all game. Play 1 dribble around a shot ton or play 2 just keep passing violently around the court until the clock gets low. Excruciating.

Rubios shot has gotten absolutely flat. Never thought any of them were going to make it over the rim.

Baynes has been awful since coming back.

Ayton played better than I expected. I got real scared those first few minutes. He’s still soft and hates contact but he wasn’t why they lost. Still would have lost with Booker.

Frank missed another layup.

The Clippers announcers are incredibly obnoxious and don’t fully even pay attention to the game because their babbling on about some meaningless story about Doc Rivers Christmas shopping. It’s brutal.

Ah. A good old fashioned blowout. Better than those gut punching 1 point losses, anyway.

Too many bricks. It could have been close had they hit open shots given up by Clippers and played weakside defense. Because shots weren’t falling, Suns passed on what the Clips gave them and either made bad passes or dribbled into a crowd.

7 OREB for Ayton when Andre Drummond is leading the league at 4.6 - nice.

3rdside wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:51 am

7 OREB for Ayton when Andre Drummond is leading the league at 4.6 - nice.

He was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.

OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:59 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:51 am

7 OREB for Ayton when Andre Drummond is leading the league at 4.6 - nice.

He was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.

OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.

Yep, it's a shame he's got this big body but doesn't want use it to force contact and to force his will on other players. Instead, he moves away from contact and is rarely fouled. What happened to #BullySzn? I guess it's all talk. It's time we get used to the fact that he's going to be a finesse player that avoids contact in spite of his physical presence.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:07 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:59 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:51 am

7 OREB for Ayton when Andre Drummond is leading the league at 4.6 - nice.

He was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.

OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.

Yep, it's a shame he's got this big body but doesn't want use it to force contact and to force his will on other players. Instead, he moves away from contact and is rarely fouled. What happened to #BullySzn? I guess it's all talk. It's time we get used to the fact that he's going to be a finesse player that avoids contact in spite of his physical presence.

Ergo, I'd rather trade him before giving him a max contract.

We've seen what a guy like Baynes can do at the position, so I think it's wiser to spread the money out across 2-3 players.

Let's give him time and see what he does. 2nd game of his year 2 season. If he played 36 minutes and put up 30-15-2 blocks, it looks different than effectively 20-10 in 24. These are Prime Shaq numbers.

What remains in question for me is whether he is more Amare or Bosh.

I thought Ayton played pretty well overall. 18 and 12 is good for his first game back. Rubio's shooting was dreadful, and Baynes didn't give us much. Watching the game it felt like our team reacts really poorly to strong defense. Our shots stop falling and our offense loses all flow. We were particularly dreadful from 3. I don't mind losing to the Clips who are among the league's best, but we can put up a better effort than this.

Here's the box score: https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401161048

Remember early in the season where we spent the first quarter being overly aggressive with teams, dealing with the early whistles, then continuing to play tough defense the rest of the game and the calls slowing down (along with our opponents point totals)? That was a fun 10 game stretch.

I didn't see this game as I am not feeling well and couldn't stay up until 1am for it. But it sounds like I shouldn't even bother watching the replay.

There were some concerning things about this game, but a few encouraging things too.

I'm tired of making excuses for this team. Will they ever be 100% healthy? Why are the Suns so fragile that they can't overcome any type of injury or suspension to any of their main players? Is Baynes ever going to be healthy again? Why don't they just sit him until he's 100%, since he clearly isn't really helping at this rate? Ayton looked lost on defense with Oubre, but that's to be expected. It was nice to see the Suns rebounding better though, which is what Ayton did bring positively. I still wish he would take it to the defender, but settles for midrange jumpers and turnaround jumpers to avoid the defense. We are still missing wide open layups, which is frustrating as hell. Oubre can't f'n pass, yet they tried to use him like Booker's replacement as a second ball handler. These turnovers killed the Suns. Also, how many times did we see Zubac beat Ayton down the floor for a transition dunk? I know one time it was because he hurt his ankle, but it happened at least a couple other times too. Our outside shooting was atrocious last night, and that might have a little to do with Rubio and Baynes throwing up chunkers, Carter thinking he's a volume shooter all of a sudden with the greenest of lights, and Booker and Cam being out. Still got 30 assists, so there's that...

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 3:07 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:59 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:51 am

7 OREB for Ayton when Andre Drummond is leading the league at 4.6 - nice.

He was very active in that regard. I respect his effort tonight, and I'm hopeful that things will gel with the whole squad in time.

OTOH, he'll never be a guy who takes over a game and it'll always drive me crazy. I want him to be Amare so badly.

Yep, it's a shame he's got this big body but doesn't want use it to force contact and to force his will on other players. Instead, he moves away from contact and is rarely fouled. What happened to #BullySzn? I guess it's all talk. It's time we get used to the fact that he's going to be a finesse player that avoids contact in spite of his physical presence.

This would be the only reason to bring in Amare at this point. Maybe he could mentor Ayton on aggression. That or lock Ayton in a room for 10 hours and play a never ending loop of Amare dunking on people with authority.

Watched thru most of the 2nd qtr then went to bed. Could tell we didn't have it last night but will watch the replay today.

First thought on Ayton was that he looks like he's in shape. He was gliding/floating around with ease early on, much quicker than last year it seemed. I liked the midrange shots he was taking and I love the baseline fade. I know we want dunks and inside play, but give me an automatic baseline jumper ala Ewing/Hakeem and a reliable 16ft jumper like Duncan and the dunks will come. From what I saw tho, Ayton is Ayton. He's floating out of the paint on defense and watching the action instead of crashing and battling the other bigs for rebounds.

Offensively, it'll take a few games to get the spacing right with him in the low post/midrange area. Less room and lanes for cutters while he's in the middle as opposed to Baynes/Frank at the 3pt line. He and Rubio didn't have much chemistry either so they'll need to work on that. I did like the aggressiveness running block to block and calling for the ball, also liked the passing out of the low and high post.

Monty had some interesting lineups last night which reminded me a bit of the preseason. Think he was just in a jam with Book and Cam out on the 2nd night of a B2B. He was looking for a spark and some fresh legs. I like that he's giving the young guards some minutes. It'l hurt now, but could pay off later.

I didn't think we were playing poorly early on, the Clips were just hitting everything and it felt like one of those nights for us. I liked Oubre and Bridges battling Kawhi and PG early on tho. Oubre especially seemed to be taking it personal matching up with those guys.

The Cards’ first season here they started 7-4 and I thought they might be good. It would be ten years before they’d finish a season at .500+. And another ten years after that.

People act like Stoudemire was a finished product from day one, and he wasn't. It was year 3 before Amar'e reached his potential.

At the same stage Ayton already has a better shooting touch and is a much better rebounder. And he'll also most likely be a much better defender (have we all forgotten how weak Stoudemire's defense was?)

Amare’s FTr as a rookie: .583
Ayton’s: .217

Ayton’s numbers otherwise compare well to Amare’s, but that one stands out.

Yeah, they're different players.

But Ayton has huge advantages in rebounding and eFG%.

People just need to exercise a little patience and not compare a 21-year-old with another player in the prime of his career.

Ayton will never be Amar'e just as Amar'e never averaged 10rpg in a season. They're different. Amar'e was a run-jump athlete who excelled in PnR. Ayton's a true low-post center.