Phx-Suns.Net

Luka's defense isn't much better than Young's.

See. I always like Jokic. Gives credit where credit is due and is a great player.

djy2j wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:57 am

Aytons best game as a pro. Hands down. That was the performance I was waiting to see if he had in him. He’s had better games statistically but the way he played last night showed me flash of a superstar he could be.

He played mad last night and he remained focused and engaged the entire game. He was the most dominant player on the court.

Forget the Mavs game. Show him THAT game on repeat.

Yep, this has been what I've been wanting to see too. Gives me some hope for his and our future.

djy2j wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:57 am

Aytons best game as a pro. Hands down.

I think the Knicks game was more impressive.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:16 am

Ayton is a better player than Young.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

And not that I subscribe to either of these stats, but Young blows Ayton out of the water on both VORP and win shares.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:12 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:16 am

Ayton is a better player than Young.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

And not that I subscribe to either of these stats, but Young blows Ayton out of the water on both VORP and win shares.

Let's go ahead and restate it: Ayton is a better player that Young. I'm pretty sure Young is near his ceiling, Ayton has barely scratched the surface.

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:18 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:12 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:16 am

Ayton is a better player than Young.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

And not that I subscribe to either of these stats, but Young blows Ayton out of the water on both VORP and win shares.

Let's go ahead and restate it: Ayton is a better player that Young.

I guess trying to speak it into existing is on strategy we could employ...

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:12 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:16 am

Ayton is a better player than Young.

I don't think that is even remotely true.

And not that I subscribe to either of these stats, but Young blows Ayton out of the water on both VORP and win shares.

I’m not saying Ayton is better, but VORP and WS are both counting stats, so Ayton missing 25 games really hurts here. His WS/48 is essentially the same as Trae. Though Trae has a much higher BPM which is not a counting stat and what VORP is based on.

Teammates standing around watching Young do stuff isn't my idea of good basketball nor a great player - he reminds me of Westbrook like that.

See how he pans out in this guard dominant age of course, but I'm happy with Ayton for now.

Really depends on the Ayton IMHO. The one being aggressive and approaching 30-20 with good to great defense? Hell yeah he's better than Trae. The one that puts up a quiet 15-10? Debatable.

What I care more about is who will be better in 3 years. And to me the answer is clear.

Ayton has definitely improved as the year has gone on. He started with all jumpers and we were upset he never takes it to the hole. Then they started trying to post him up and had a difficult time getting him the ball. When he caught it they swarmed him and it became a turnover. They started getting him the ball and then he was getting blocked. He tried to lay the ball in nicely and would miss. Gradually he has been getting better at getting the ball and finishing around the hoop and is getting fouled much more now. He is starting to dunk it more and play with a little anger.

I can see improvement and I like where it’sheading.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:43 am

Really depends on the Ayton IMHO. The one being aggressive and approaching 30-20 with good to great defense? Hell yeah he's better than Trae. The one that puts up a quiet 15-10? Debatable.

What I care more about is who will be better in 3 years. And to me the answer is clear.

Duh. The guy that possesses the ball 80% of the possession, doesn't play defense and shoots 29 ft 3 pointers.

Trae Young is an exciting young player. But I generally don't like having a ball-dominant shoot-first guy like that on my team. I much prefer having a star like Booker who can get his points without gumming up our whole offense. And as for companing Ayton to Young, well, they're both still very ... young, so it's a bit early to decide. I prefer Ayton on this team, certainly.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:52 am

Trae Young is an exciting young player. But I generally don't like having a ball-dominant shoot-first guy like that on my team. I much prefer having a star like Booker who can get his points without gumming up our whole offense. And as for companing Ayton to Young, well, they're both still very ... young, so it's a bit early to decide. I prefer Ayton on this team, certainly.

Uh, Steph Curry?!? They both are >30% usage guys that shoot 20 times a game.

Curry spent a lot of time off ball. He shot a lot, but the warriors shared the ball a lot. Trae has the ball in his hands as much as anyone in the league.

9.1 minutes for Trae, which leads the league. Lillard in 2nd at 8.7, Harden and Doncic tied for 3rd at 8.6. Booker at 4.1


Curry for reference was between 4.8-5.3 minutes per game while Durant was there. 5.6-5.8 during his MVP years. 7.4 in the year before his MVP’s. Taking the ball out of his hands made him and GS better.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:31 am

Curry spent a lot of time off ball. He shot a lot, but the warriors shared the ball a lot. Trae has the ball in his hands as much as anyone in the league.

Agreed that they shared the ball more, but they had outstanding NBA players on the roster. If you add KD or even KT to that roster, his minutes on ball would cut in half.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:37 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:31 am

Curry spent a lot of time off ball. He shot a lot, but the warriors shared the ball a lot. Trae has the ball in his hands as much as anyone in the league.

Agreed that they shared the ball more, but they had outstanding NBA players on the roster. If you add KD or even KT to that roster, his minutes on ball would cut in half.

Fair. I added some info to the post after you quoted, I’ll add it here:

9.1 minutes for Trae, which leads the league. Lillard in 2nd at 8.7, Harden and Doncic tied for 3rd at 8.6. Booker at 4.1


Curry for reference was between 4.8-5.3 minutes per game while Durant was there. 5.6-5.8 during his MVP years. 7.4 in the year before his MVP’s. Taking the ball out of his hands made him and GS better

I wonder if Trae could benefit the same way by taking the ball out of his hands some.

Ah, yeah. I think I see him as kind of like Steph back when GSW had Monta Ellis on the team, but there isn't anyone on ATL that is even as close to being that for them. They would be a ton better as a team if they had someone else that was a good NBA player that could share the ball with him. He would be so much more efficient, and so would ATL.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:43 am

Ah, yeah. I think I see him as kind of like Steph back when GSW had Monta Ellis on the team, but there isn't anyone on ATL that is even as close to being that for them. They would be a ton better as a team if they had someone else that was a good NBA player that could share the ball with him. He would be so much more efficient, and so would ATL.

Ya, so far they’ve added just a bunch of non ball handlers. Kevin Huerter is the one guy right now that can play with the ball in his hands. They need to find their Draymond Green.