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Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:54 pm
by In2ition
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:20 am
The Suns need to be very careful with the Cameron Payne. The past two seasons, there has been a backup point guard that showed some promise in a limited sample size that went on to be awful the next season. In 2017-18, Isaiah Canaan had a stretch when he was regularly scoring in double figures. The thought was to bring him back as a reliable player in the point guard rotation. We know how that went in 2018-19. Later on that year, Tyler Johnson was acquired and played just a handful of games, most of them weren't even that good, but many applauded his acquisition, and we went into the 2019-20 season thinking he could be a reliable contributor. He turned out to be unplayable.
I like Cameron Payne, and he was a key factor in the Suns success in the seeding games; but we've been here before.
Totally agree. Btw, if Tyler Johnson played as well as he has been with the Nets, the Suns wouldn't have needed to get Payne and probably would be playing in the playoffs, imo.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:05 pm
by 3rdside
INFORMER wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:20 am
The Suns need to be very careful with the Cameron Payne. The past two seasons, there has been a backup point guard that showed some promise in a limited sample size that went on to be awful the next season. In 2017-18, Isaiah Canaan had a stretch when he was regularly scoring in double figures. The thought was to bring him back as a reliable player in the point guard rotation. We know how that went in 2018-19. Later on that year, Tyler Johnson was acquired and played just a handful of games, most of them weren't even that good, but many applauded his acquisition, and we went into the 2019-20 season thinking he could be a reliable contributor. He turned out to be unplayable.
I like Cameron Payne, and he was a key factor in the Suns success in the seeding games; but we've been here before.
Good call, which plays into drafting Haliburton / Hayes .. Vassell seems less of a ball handler but could probably manage it.
This reasonably talented but superstar-less draft will play into teams with a higher pick trading down to get a two-fer, so maybe we could capitalise there by moving up if we don't expect these guys to be on the board at 10, but I don't know how that would work.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:11 pm
by 3rdside
And who's left on the board looks like it will determine what we do - if we can get one of the above players then our back court is set for the season and we can keep or trade our front court.
If not then we'll have to get creative as we're a good guard short, which is the most pressing issue looking at our roster imo - more so than size at 4 and definitely more so than a better starting PG.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:20 am
by O_Gardino
The Suns are already careful with Cameron Payne. They've got him on a contract that they control and it's very easy to get out of.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:27 am
by Ring_Wanted
It's not Payne himself or his contract, so to speak. It's that maybe they are planning an offseason under the premise that the backup PG is solved and they can focus on the rest of needs, but maybe Payne has been just a flash in the pan and we realize we need a real solution at guard a few games into next season, when it's way more complicated (and expensive in term of assets) to get things done.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 am
by O_Gardino
Are you and Inf concerned that they will make the mistake of last offseason when the Suns liked Johnson so much that they drafted another PG, brought back another PG, signed a free agent PG, and traded for a PG?
If you don't think Payne will be that good, ok I get it. But I haven't seen the Suns take a summer off from messing with the PG position in a decade. The narrative that the Suns are going to get enamored with one guy and stop trying to improve the roster is off the mark.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:39 am
by Ring_Wanted
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 am
Are you and Inf concerned that they will make the mistake of last offseason when the Suns liked Johnson so much that they drafted another PG, brought back another PG, signed a free agent PG, and traded for a PG?
If you don't think Payne will be that good, ok I get it. But I haven't seen the Suns take a summer off from messing with the PG position in a decade.
The narrative that the Suns are going to get enamored with one guy and stop trying to improve the roster is off the mark.
haha
touche
As for the bold part, not the roster. Just at PG. Since backup PG is not our only (or even most pressing imo) need, I think it is a legitimate concern that Jones may go in a different direction. We'll see what happens, but imagine Haliburton is there at #10 (tankathon has him there at the moment) or that some team is willing to trade down: Jones is still the guy who paid Rubio, drafted Jerome (!!!) and took a flyer on Leque (and Payne, of course). I can see Jones feeling ok with what he has done at PG so far after the bubble.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:01 am
by Mori Chu
I feel like we always have 3-4 young project backup PGs on the roster. I just wish we would have fewer and better players at that position. Payne played really well, and we have him locked into a cheap contract for next year, so it's a no-brainer to keep him IMO. And I think it's time to say goodbye to Okobo. I would be okay with them keeping Jerome if only to stash him in the G-League, but he seems like a waste of a roster spot right now and seems more than a year away. If a great PG prospect is also available in the draft (like Halliburton), go for it, but I wouldn't want to give up a bunch of assets just to get a rookie PG on the roster.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:19 am
by O_Gardino
Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:39 am
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 am
Are you and Inf concerned that they will make the mistake of last offseason when the Suns liked Johnson so much that they drafted another PG, brought back another PG, signed a free agent PG, and traded for a PG?
If you don't think Payne will be that good, ok I get it. But I haven't seen the Suns take a summer off from messing with the PG position in a decade.
The narrative that the Suns are going to get enamored with one guy and stop trying to improve the roster is off the mark.
haha
touche
As for the bold part, not the roster. Just at PG. Since backup PG is not our only (or even most pressing imo) need, I think it is a legitimate concern that Jones may go in a different direction. We'll see what happens, but imagine Haliburton is there at #10 (tankathon has him there at the moment) or that some team is willing to trade down: Jones is still the guy who paid Rubio, drafted Jerome (!!!) and took a flyer on Leque (and Payne, of course). I can see Jones feeling ok with what he has done at PG so far after the bubble.
I guess we really don't know what Jones will do, and you may well be right that he feels good after the bubble. I'm just used to the Suns seeing something work and then messing with it.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:13 pm
by Superbone
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 am
Are you and Inf concerned that they will make the mistake of last offseason when the Suns liked Johnson so much that they drafted another PG, brought back another PG, signed a free agent PG, and traded for a PG?
If you don't think Payne will be that good, ok I get it. But I haven't seen the Suns take a summer off from messing with the PG position in a decade. The narrative that the Suns are going to get enamored with one guy and stop trying to improve the roster is off the mark.
I think 3 or 4 more point guards should do the trick.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:20 pm
by Cap
Superbone wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:13 pm
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 am
Are you and Inf concerned that they will make the mistake of last offseason when the Suns liked Johnson so much that they drafted another PG, brought back another PG, signed a free agent PG, and traded for a PG?
If you don't think Payne will be that good, ok I get it. But I haven't seen the Suns take a summer off from messing with the PG position in a decade. The narrative that the Suns are going to get enamored with one guy and stop trying to improve the roster is off the mark.
I think 3 or 4 more point guards should do the trick.
We also need a few more starting SFs.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:23 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I'm of the belief that you can't really have too many guys who can play 2-4.
The truly elite ones like Giannis or Kawhi can play 1 or 5 for stretches as well.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:42 am
by ShelC
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:48 am
by Drewsprocket
How much can they offer? Sign and trade 10th pick plus Oubre for FVV?
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:52 am
by Split T
19 million a year if we renounce everyone
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:53 am
by Split T
Would almost definitely have to be a sign and trade. I wouldn’t add the 10th pick though. Oubre for VanVleet. Draft Vassell, resign Saric and Carter.
VanVleet/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton with
Rubio/Carter/Vassell/Saric off the bench.
Needs 1 more bench big.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:26 am
by O_Gardino
Toronto hasn't been shy about committing $, and I believe they have almost 50 million coming off the books with Ibaka and Gasol. If the Raps want to keep him, they will.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:33 am
by In2ition
Getting FVV seems...unlikely. He probably gets offered the max, but how much is he really worth?
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:59 am
by Indy
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:26 am
Toronto hasn't been shy about committing $, and I believe they have almost 50 million coming off the books with Ibaka and Gasol. If the Raps want to keep him, they will.
But they only have 9 players under contract for next year, and Lowry is an UFA next summer. With Lowry being the face of that team, they will max him. And with Siakam's extension starting at 29M next year, they might want to use that money in different ways.
Re: Suns News: Offseason
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:07 pm
by In2ition
Indy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:59 am
O_Gardino wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:26 am
Toronto hasn't been shy about committing $, and I believe they have almost 50 million coming off the books with Ibaka and Gasol. If the Raps want to keep him, they will.
But they only have 9 players under contract for next year, and Lowry is an UFA next summer. With Lowry being the face of that team, they will max him. And with Siakam's extension starting at 29M next year, they might want to use that money in different ways.
Aren't they also trying to open cap space as they think they are a destination for Giannis?