Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:23 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:56 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:52 am

That's not a decision we have to make in training camp this year.

But we do before training camp in 2021. Most likely before the draft.

Not necessarily, unless he makes a big leap this year, I’m not giving him an extension. At that point I think you make him play out year 4 unless he’s signing for less than the max.

Not signing him to an extension when he is eligible is a strong signal. I am just saying we need to know what we got before making that decision. I think once you choose to let him play it out, even owning his rights, you are sending a signal to him, his agent, and the entire league that his is not the #1 pick you expected him to be.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:57 am

I think part of drafting Jalen Smith was to both compliment Ayton, um, finesse, with some power and force while also keeping an towards a potential future without Ayton and sliding Smith into that spot.

Yep, Jalen will show Ayton what attacking the rim looks like.

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:11 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:23 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:56 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:52 am

That's not a decision we have to make in training camp this year.

But we do before training camp in 2021. Most likely before the draft.

Not necessarily, unless he makes a big leap this year, I’m not giving him an extension. At that point I think you make him play out year 4 unless he’s signing for less than the max.

Not signing him to an extension when he is eligible is a strong signal. I am just saying we need to know what we got before making that decision. I think once you choose to let him play it out, even owning his rights, you are sending a signal to him, his agent, and the entire league that his is not the #1 pick you expected him to be.

I think the options for the Suns in regards to Ayton by the startt of next season are to either (a) offer him the max or (b) trade him. I would be suprised if Ayton would be ok with getting anything other than the max.

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:11 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:23 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:56 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:52 am

That's not a decision we have to make in training camp this year.

But we do before training camp in 2021. Most likely before the draft.

Not necessarily, unless he makes a big leap this year, I’m not giving him an extension. At that point I think you make him play out year 4 unless he’s signing for less than the max.

Not signing him to an extension when he is eligible is a strong signal. I am just saying we need to know what we got before making that decision. I think once you choose to let him play it out, even owning his rights, you are sending a signal to him, his agent, and the entire league that his is not the #1 pick you expected him to be.

That’s true, but that’s a signal I’m willing to send if he’s not proven worthy of the extension. Go out and prove it. I know the Ingram situation is different because he was traded, but he still played out year 4 without an extension and signed for the max. We’d still be able to match any offer he got in restricted free agency.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:29 am

Not sure how much of that is because of how he feels the Suns are actually doing, and how much is because of his relationship with James Jones, but it is great to see regardless.

Yea I'd be down for letting him get a deal as a RFA and matching if need be.

jonh wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:23 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:11 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:23 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:56 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:52 am

That's not a decision we have to make in training camp this year.

But we do before training camp in 2021. Most likely before the draft.

Not necessarily, unless he makes a big leap this year, I’m not giving him an extension. At that point I think you make him play out year 4 unless he’s signing for less than the max.

Not signing him to an extension when he is eligible is a strong signal. I am just saying we need to know what we got before making that decision. I think once you choose to let him play it out, even owning his rights, you are sending a signal to him, his agent, and the entire league that his is not the #1 pick you expected him to be.

I think the options for the Suns in regards to Ayton by the startt of next season are to either (a) offer him the max or (b) trade him. I would be suprised if Ayton would be ok with getting anything other than the max.

He’s under contract for 2 years. Why isn’t letting him play out year 4 before making a decision an option?

Also, you can make him go get a max deal and just match it if he does.

Oh you are right--for some reason, I thought he was a year further out than he is. I think I was just in the mood to give a hot take this afternoon.

Haha, no your hot take makes more sense now

Anyone in the last decade that was the last #1 pick and didn't get his max extension when it was first available? Anthony Bennett (out of the league after rookie deal) and Fultz? That it?

Wiggins got it, but it was always a terrible contract

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:19 pm

Anyone in the last decade that was the last #1 pick and didn't get his max extension when it was first available? Anthony Bennett (out of the league after rookie deal) and Fultz? That it?

Are you guys being serious? Can Ayton be better? Sure. But please.

Last season, Ayton:
18.2 PTS
11.5 TRB
1.9 AST
1.5 BLK

Anthony Bennet, last year of rookie deal:
5.0 PTS
3.4 TRB
0.5 AST
0.1 BLK

And that was Bennett's most productive season in the NBA, other than his 2nd season when he averaged 5.2 PTS.

I'm really not sure the Ayton hate, as if he's a massive bust. He had a fantastic 2nd season. Did he defer often to his teammates and not dunk enough? Yeah. But to even mention him in the same breath or assume that he won't get a max extension if he continues to improve on his already fantastic 2nd year numbers is a fucking joke.

Tell me what the expectation is? 30 PTS, 16 REB, 4 BLKS a game? Remind me any Centers in the NBA that even come CLOSE to that production or put up considerably better than Ayton's 2nd season numbers?

Joel Embiid put up 23 PTS, 11.6 TRB, 3.0 AST and 1.3 BLK last season.
Nikola Jokic put up 19.9 PTS, 9.7 TRB, 7.0 AST and 0.6 BLK last season.

I mean, if he gets more aggressive, as we assume he will with CP3 and Crowder on the team, he's going to improve over already top 5 NBA Center statistics.

Again, how the hell are we already talking about likely not picking up Ayton after his rookie deal when he's basically a top 5 NBA center in his shortened 2nd season in the NBA?!

No one compared him to Bennett. Indy simply asked what former #1 picks didn’t get a max extension. Bennett and Fultz are the two.

Also no one is saying we shouldn’t keep Ayton, just that maybe we shouldn’t just jump to max him as soon as we can.

I’m not sure why we can’t have high expectations for him. Just because we’re not perfectly happy with everything he’s done, doesn’t mean we’re haters.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:14 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:19 pm

Anyone in the last decade that was the last #1 pick and didn't get his max extension when it was first available? Anthony Bennett (out of the league after rookie deal) and Fultz? That it?

Are you guys being serious?

...

I think you read a lot into the discussion that wasn't there, or maybe didn't read the discussion.

The question, like Split said, is "are we sure we should giving a max extension to Ayton as soon as we possibly can?"

And the 2nd question that follows: "If we are not sure, what does that say about his future on the team (and what does it signal to him)?"

I am arguing we can't wait until after his team option year, and have to make that decision by the next draft so we know if he is a future part of the org or not, and make a trade if he isn't.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:32 pm

No one compared him to Bennett. Indy simply asked what former #1 picks didn’t get a max extension. Bennett and Fultz are the two.

Also no one is saying we shouldn’t keep Ayton, just that maybe we shouldn’t just jump to max him as soon as we can.

I’m not sure why we can’t have high expectations for him. Just because we’re not perfectly happy with everything he’s done, doesn’t mean we’re haters.

This. I want him to be a player every NBA fan knows as a clear max player BEFORE we are paying him a max deal. That isn't hating on him.

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:39 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:32 pm

No one compared him to Bennett. Indy simply asked what former #1 picks didn’t get a max extension. Bennett and Fultz are the two.

Also no one is saying we shouldn’t keep Ayton, just that maybe we shouldn’t just jump to max him as soon as we can.

I’m not sure why we can’t have high expectations for him. Just because we’re not perfectly happy with everything he’s done, doesn’t mean we’re haters.

This. I want him to be a player every NBA fan knows as a clear max player BEFORE we are paying him a max deal. That isn't hating on him.

I feel the same. There are plenty of good players that just get paid too much and become negative assets. It doesn’t mean they aren’t good, just overpaid. CP3 is a great player, he’s also overpaid at this stage of his career. John Wall, before injuries, was a good player. Just overpaid. Ayton is a good player, at this point a max deal for him might become an overpay.

Ideally, he proves he’s worth the max this year and we pay him. Giving a max to somewhat who isn’t worth it is the exact way we kill the momentum of this team though. He doesn’t help us enough, and he becomes hard to trade, or at least hard to get good value out of.

I read the discussion wrong and skipped over a large part of what was being said. I agree though completely that paying him a max deal early on is a bad idea.

Listening to Crowder and CP3 talk, I have to wonder if us beating Miami and OKC in the bubble had a big impact on our offseason acquisitions.