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Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:19 pm
by Split T
Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:13 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:10 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:07 pm
Yeah I get that. I just think the context in which a pick is called a miss probably matters. I am fairly optimistic about Jones’ ability to identify talent in the late first. With Ishbia replacing Sarver I’m hopeful we can make investments into player development and avoid the (post-draft) Stix disaster in the future.
As much as I hate the mortgaging the future approach, I think what Ishbia has done has been consistent.
You’re right, context matters. I probably should have said something like, ignoring who we could have taken instead, it’s interesting that everyone James Jones has picked has turned into a useful nba player.
I really don't understand why we gave up on Smith so quickly.
Ya it was dumb…we made tons of mistakes with him.
1. Drafting him at 10 over Haliburton was stupid. At the very least, Boston was offering extra picks to move up. Could’ve taken pick 30 to move down to 14. You can still draft Smith and then had 30 to draft Bane.
2. Monty thought he was Jerami Grant…didn’t use him properly.
3. Declined his option when it was super cheap.
Trading him for Craig probably wasn’t a mistake because we had already declined the option at that point and he was gonna walk…but still kinda funny.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:20 pm
by Cap
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:03 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:50 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:14 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 5:42 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 5:28 pm
Because he’s a solid nba player.
He never did anything for us and we could and should have had one of the Tyreses. That’s a miss.
I’m not commenting on what we could have done with it…we certainly botched it in some ways…but Jalen is an nba player…jones didn’t miss on that
I find that I agree with the vast majority of your takes, Split, and I get the logic of your statement, but honestly that is a very literal interpretation of the term “miss”. In evaluating a team’s draft records I think it’s worthwhile to take a step back and see if our front office is able to maximize the draft positions we find ourselves in and the players available during those specific drafts. I agree with you that we haven’t drafted complete busts like Anthony Bennett, and I expressed optimism for the 31 1st for three late rounds 1sts exactly for the reasons you stated, but Jones did miss on obviously better players during at least one draft, and I would argue he could’ve easily traded back from 11 to pick up additional assets and still had gotten Cam Johnson.
I agree..I don’t think I’m explaining my thinking very well. Or just not wording it well. We obviously shouldn’t have drafted Jalen Smith,
Tyrese Haliburton was as obvious of a pick as I can remember. I’m just saying that so far, when James Jones has targeted a player in the draft, they’ve ultimately proven to be an nba player. I think he was right about Jalen Smith. I think Monty botched using him and then we made it worse by declining his option, but JJ evaluated Jalen correctly…how much of the option being declined was a Sarver money saving thing? I don’t remember if we were in luxury tax land or not.
My statement wasn’t factoring in good use of assets or who was available. Just simply that I think James Jones targeted a specific player that he thought was an NBA player and he was right. It’s not a good way to evaluate a draft record, but it does mean I think James Jones knows how to find an nba player…at least he’s identified something that makes people good nba players. I do wish he’d be a little more open minded to risk in the draft.
Book was obvious too, and McD took him. McD > JJ.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:29 pm
by Wally_West
Yall making it too complicated. Split’s point is very simple-Did the player James Jones draft become a good nba player? That’s it. Whether they were successful here is entirely different point. The point is just stating James Jones has a decent eye for prospects and he’s been able to make good picks regardless where he is picking. Did he whiff on Tyrese Haliburton? YES! That doesn’t mean Jalen Smith isn’t a good player.
No one is going to be perfect at drafting but if we are gonna be drafting late picks all the time, it’s nice to know JJ seems to be pretty decent at finding value where ever he’s picking at.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:29 pm
by Split T
McD also took Len, Ennis, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, Jackson,
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:30 pm
by Wally_West
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:20 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:03 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:50 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:14 pm
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 5:42 pm
He never did anything for us and we could and should have had one of the Tyreses. That’s a miss.
I’m not commenting on what we could have done with it…we certainly botched it in some ways…but Jalen is an nba player…jones didn’t miss on that
I find that I agree with the vast majority of your takes, Split, and I get the logic of your statement, but honestly that is a very literal interpretation of the term “miss”. In evaluating a team’s draft records I think it’s worthwhile to take a step back and see if our front office is able to maximize the draft positions we find ourselves in and the players available during those specific drafts. I agree with you that we haven’t drafted complete busts like Anthony Bennett, and I expressed optimism for the 31 1st for three late rounds 1sts exactly for the reasons you stated, but Jones did miss on obviously better players during at least one draft, and I would argue he could’ve easily traded back from 11 to pick up additional assets and still had gotten Cam Johnson.
I agree..I don’t think I’m explaining my thinking very well. Or just not wording it well. We obviously shouldn’t have drafted Jalen Smith,
Tyrese Haliburton was as obvious of a pick as I can remember. I’m just saying that so far, when James Jones has targeted a player in the draft, they’ve ultimately proven to be an nba player. I think he was right about Jalen Smith. I think Monty botched using him and then we made it worse by declining his option, but JJ evaluated Jalen correctly…how much of the option being declined was a Sarver money saving thing? I don’t remember if we were in luxury tax land or not.
My statement wasn’t factoring in good use of assets or who was available. Just simply that I think James Jones targeted a specific player that he thought was an NBA player and he was right. It’s not a good way to evaluate a draft record, but it does mean I think James Jones knows how to find an nba player…at least he’s identified something that makes people good nba players. I do wish he’d be a little more open minded to risk in the draft.
Book was obvious too, and McD took him. McD > JJ.
How did McD’s other picks work out?
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:13 pm
by pickle
That was clearly tongue in cheek … why the serious responses?
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:01 am
by Ring_Wanted
With Ty Jerome's unexpected (to me, at least) emergence, turns out Jones has not drafted any bust yet. Sure, that's not the same as saying 'he nailed his picks' in the sense that he selected the best player available (here we get fast into hindsight). I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. You could say 'all he got was safe role players' or 'he did not waste any picks on trash'. Of course, further asset management can be discussed, like absurdly cutting short Smith's tenure.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:38 am
by ShelC
Sidery saying we're talking to a bunch of teams about trading Nurk and a 1st. He's played his last game with us and a trade should be coming in the next few days.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:47 am
by Ring_Wanted
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:38 am
Sidery saying we're talking to a bunch of teams about trading Nurk and a 1st. He's played his last game with us and a trade should be coming in the next few days.
Hopefully that's that case and we get something useful. Nurkic was truly unplayable for us.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:58 am
by pickle
If this is a lost season I’d rather just keep the first.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:05 am
by Ring_Wanted
pickle wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:58 am
If this is a lost season I’d rather just keep the first.
To me it depends on the piece we get back. If it's a big, a PG or an athletic wing that can be part of the team for a few years, I have no problem spending a pick. Nurkic is deadweight and using his salary is one of the very few realistic ways we have to improve the team. Now, if you are talking about the likes of Olynyk or similar guys past their prime, obviously a 1stR is a waste.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:06 am
by ShelC
Depending on who it is, it could help heading into next season.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:07 am
by Cap
Weird how quickly Nurk declined from one season to the next, not only in the quality of his play but his attitude. He was a good fit last season, now we’re looking at attaching draft picks just to get rid of him.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:08 am
by Split T
Bring Vogel back for 3 games and let Nurk cook so we can trade him at the deadline
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:52 am
by In2ition
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:29 pm
McD also took Len, Ennis, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, Jackson,
Not to mention all the 2nd round flops that he or his cronie took.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:52 am
by TOO
Superbone wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:13 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:10 pm
pickle wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:07 pm
Yeah I get that. I just think the context in which a pick is called a miss probably matters. I am fairly optimistic about Jones’ ability to identify talent in the late first. With Ishbia replacing Sarver I’m hopeful we can make investments into player development and avoid the (post-draft) Stix disaster in the future.
As much as I hate the mortgaging the future approach, I think what Ishbia has done has been consistent.
You’re right, context matters. I probably should have said something like, ignoring who we could have taken instead, it’s interesting that everyone James Jones has picked has turned into a useful nba player.
I really don't understand why we gave up on Smith so quickly.
Torrey Craig baby.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:06 am
by Cap
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:52 am
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:29 pm
McD also took Len, Ennis, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, Jackson,
Not to mention all the 2nd round flops that he or his cronie took.
Complaining about Ulis? Admittedly, he did miss on Malcolm Bronson, but I think everybody in the league missed on him.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:08 am
by Split T
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:06 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:52 am
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:29 pm
McD also took Len, Ennis, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, Jackson,
Not to mention all the 2nd round flops that he or his cronie took.
Complaining about Ulis? Admittedly, he did miss on Malcolm Bronson, but I think everybody in the league missed on him.
No just showing the contrast
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:09 am
by BigLewy
Cap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:06 am
In2ition wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:52 am
Split T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:29 pm
McD also took Len, Ennis, Bender, Chriss, Ulis, Jackson,
Not to mention all the 2nd round flops that he or his cronie took.
Complaining about Ulis? Admittedly, he did miss on Malcolm Bronson, but I think everybody in the league missed on him.
Don't forget Ellie Okobo over Jalen Brunson in 2018.
Re: Suns News: Week 15 (1/27 - 2/2)
Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:22 am
by TOO
I cannot complain about missing on 2nd rounders, because everybody else did too, that's why they are in the 2nd round.
