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Chris Paul and Devin Booker's relationship paying off for Suns - Sports Illustrated https://share.google/vCDY0cti7tRISe1NR

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:45 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:38 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 10:25 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 10:01 am

This. People who want him off the ball don't get it. He's not at his best running around off screens and catch and shooting. Never has been.

Finals Booker disagrees. So does Bubble Booker.

Devin Booker wasn't cutting running people off screens durung either of those runs. He was getting his own shot after either Rubio or Paul gave him the ball. I don't know why we're acting like Bookers offensive game has changed much over his career it hasn't. His efficiency and ability to pass has improved over time, but he's never been a guy that cuts or runs around.

Yes, he was. He was frequently coming off a screen to catch the ball at the elbow/3 elbow and driving immediately or shooting. Point 5 offense.

He didn't start this hold the ball and allow himself to get trapped bullshit until KD came and he started playing the de facto PG role

He’s always done that, even last year. There’s no reason when he’s the pg that he can’t get off ball for a bit. I think the problem is putting him mostly off ball and making a lesser pg run the offense.

I wouldn’t support a slow it down Luka/Harden style offense where Booker just runs iso and pick and roll over and over again, but Book is clearly the best player and will draw the most attention of the defense. He’s not Curry and won’t draw that attention off ball. If we had a Luka, LeBron, Jokic, Giannis, SGA, etc…then ya, by all means move Book off ball, but we aren’t anywhere close to that.

Book is the best scorer and the best passer on the team…that’s what it comes down to for me. You ultimately want him either taking the shot or passing it to the shooter…you only maximize that by putting him on ball most of the time.

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 2:44 pm

Chris Paul and Devin Booker's relationship paying off for Suns - Sports Illustrated https://share.google/vCDY0cti7tRISe1NR

I think we forget that Booker and Paul didn’t mesh right away. It ultimately proved to be a great fit…but I’ll also point out that the next year when Booker got MVP consideration, it was in large part to the time when CP3 was hurt and Booker kept us going without missing a beat.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 4:09 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:45 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:38 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 10:25 am

This. People who want him off the ball don't get it. He's not at his best running around off screens and catch and shooting. Never has been.

Finals Booker disagrees. So does Bubble Booker.

Devin Booker wasn't cutting running people off screens durung either of those runs. He was getting his own shot after either Rubio or Paul gave him the ball. I don't know why we're acting like Bookers offensive game has changed much over his career it hasn't. His efficiency and ability to pass has improved over time, but he's never been a guy that cuts or runs around.

Yes, he was. He was frequently coming off a screen to catch the ball at the elbow/3 elbow and driving immediately or shooting. Point 5 offense.

He didn't start this hold the ball and allow himself to get trapped bullshit until KD came and he started playing the de facto PG role

He’s always done that, even last year. There’s no reason when he’s the pg that he can’t get off ball for a bit. I think the problem is putting him mostly off ball and making a lesser pg run the offense.

I wouldn’t support a slow it down Luka/Harden style offense where Booker just runs iso and pick and roll over and over again, but Book is clearly the best player and will draw the most attention of the defense. He’s not Curry and won’t draw that attention off ball. If we had a Luka, LeBron, Jokic, Giannis, SGA, etc…then ya, by all means move Book off ball, but we aren’t anywhere close to that.

Book is the best scorer and the best passer on the team…that’s what it comes down to for me. You ultimately want him either taking the shot or passing it to the shooter…you only maximize that by putting him on ball most of the time.

Well, that's been the offense the last two years and that's what happens when you have Booker bring the ball up and initiate the offense from halfcourt. His decision making is way too slow.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 9:08 am

Calling Tyus the Pg was a formality. Book ran the offense. At most Tyus or Brad would just dribble to half court then hand the ball off to him at the top of the 3.

This. Durant ran the offense too. Tyus wasn't used like he was in Memphis, especially when he started for Morant when he went out.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 5:34 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 9:08 am

Calling Tyus the Pg was a formality. Book ran the offense. At most Tyus or Brad would just dribble to half court then hand the ball off to him at the top of the 3.

This. Durant ran the offense too. Tyus wasn't used like he was in Memphis, especially when he started for Morant when he went out.

Same thing goes for all the Fishers, Armstrongs and other nonsense you tried to throw out there.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 5:19 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 4:09 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:45 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:38 am

Finals Booker disagrees. So does Bubble Booker.

Devin Booker wasn't cutting running people off screens durung either of those runs. He was getting his own shot after either Rubio or Paul gave him the ball. I don't know why we're acting like Bookers offensive game has changed much over his career it hasn't. His efficiency and ability to pass has improved over time, but he's never been a guy that cuts or runs around.

Yes, he was. He was frequently coming off a screen to catch the ball at the elbow/3 elbow and driving immediately or shooting. Point 5 offense.

He didn't start this hold the ball and allow himself to get trapped bullshit until KD came and he started playing the de facto PG role

He’s always done that, even last year. There’s no reason when he’s the pg that he can’t get off ball for a bit. I think the problem is putting him mostly off ball and making a lesser pg run the offense.

I wouldn’t support a slow it down Luka/Harden style offense where Booker just runs iso and pick and roll over and over again, but Book is clearly the best player and will draw the most attention of the defense. He’s not Curry and won’t draw that attention off ball. If we had a Luka, LeBron, Jokic, Giannis, SGA, etc…then ya, by all means move Book off ball, but we aren’t anywhere close to that.

Book is the best scorer and the best passer on the team…that’s what it comes down to for me. You ultimately want him either taking the shot or passing it to the shooter…you only maximize that by putting him on ball most of the time.

Well, that's been the offense the last two years and that's what happens when you have Booker bring the ball up and initiate the offense from halfcourt. His decision making is way too slow.

I think KD was a much bigger reason for the slow offense. Booker played fast in the past…if anyone slowed him down it was CP3 and then KD.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 6:17 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 5:19 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 4:09 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 11:45 am

Devin Booker wasn't cutting running people off screens durung either of those runs. He was getting his own shot after either Rubio or Paul gave him the ball. I don't know why we're acting like Bookers offensive game has changed much over his career it hasn't. His efficiency and ability to pass has improved over time, but he's never been a guy that cuts or runs around.

Yes, he was. He was frequently coming off a screen to catch the ball at the elbow/3 elbow and driving immediately or shooting. Point 5 offense.

He didn't start this hold the ball and allow himself to get trapped bullshit until KD came and he started playing the de facto PG role

He’s always done that, even last year. There’s no reason when he’s the pg that he can’t get off ball for a bit. I think the problem is putting him mostly off ball and making a lesser pg run the offense.

I wouldn’t support a slow it down Luka/Harden style offense where Booker just runs iso and pick and roll over and over again, but Book is clearly the best player and will draw the most attention of the defense. He’s not Curry and won’t draw that attention off ball. If we had a Luka, LeBron, Jokic, Giannis, SGA, etc…then ya, by all means move Book off ball, but we aren’t anywhere close to that.

Book is the best scorer and the best passer on the team…that’s what it comes down to for me. You ultimately want him either taking the shot or passing it to the shooter…you only maximize that by putting him on ball most of the time.

Well, that's been the offense the last two years and that's what happens when you have Booker bring the ball up and initiate the offense from halfcourt. His decision making is way too slow.

I think KD was a much bigger reason for the slow offense. Booker played fast in the past…if anyone slowed him down it was CP3 and then KD.

Just so I'm keeping track:

Fault:
Monty
Bud
Vogel
KD
CP3

Not fault:
Booker

Got it. So can we add OTT and Green to that now or did you want to wait until the end of the season?

And no, I'm not a Booker hater. I think 35% of the cap is too much for him, but he's still one of my favorite Suns ever. We're grossly mishandling his career.

I’m not saying there’s no fault for Booker…he needs to take some blame…especially for his disinterest in playing any defense anymore…I just think I see a lot of complaints about point Book being our downfall when our offense the last two years was at its best with the ball in Booker’s hands…

Our problems weren’t that Booker can’t play pg…it was that we had a roster that didn’t run, didn’t rebound, didn’t defend, and made some terrible decisions passing the ball. Yes Booker had his fair share of those too, but I think people focus on the bad moments and don’t realize he had a very low turnover rate overall.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 6:38 pm

I’m not saying there’s no fault for Booker…he needs to take some blame…especially for his disinterest in playing any defense anymore…I just think I see a lot of complaints about point Book being our downfall when our offense the last two years was at its best with the ball in Booker’s hands…

Our problems weren’t that Booker can’t play pg…it was that we had a roster that didn’t run, didn’t rebound, didn’t defend, and made some terrible decisions passing the ball. Yes Booker had his fair share of those too, but I think people focus on the bad moments and don’t realize he had a very low turnover rate overall.

Has nothing to do with being our downfall as much as it just doesn't work. Nobody is blaming everything on Point Book, but it's definitely a part of the recipe that wasn't working.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 6:17 pm

I think KD was a much bigger reason for the slow offense. Booker played fast in the past…if anyone slowed him down it was CP3 and then KD.

Booker can play fast, but the problem lies in making him solely responsible for engineering the team tempo. He can run out on the break, or grab a rebound and take it all the way to other end for a score, but that's not sustainable, and he isn't a fastbreak conductor that can consistently find guys for easy scores.

To Split's point, there were a lot of things wrong with this team the last two seasons other than Point Book. I just don't think Point Book was the flower growing out of the concrete as it is being portrayed.

I just mostly don’t want us to avoid point Book to put some very mediocre pg on the floor. Honestly his best pairing would probably be a big offensive hub like Jokic or Giannis, but that’s probably true of almost everyone haha

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 8:15 pm

I just mostly don’t want us to avoid point Book to put some very mediocre pg on the floor. Honestly his best pairing would probably be a big offensive hub like Jokic or Giannis, but that’s probably true of almost everyone haha

Yes.

Well we will enjoy peaking as a Play-In team with Book as our PG and watching him get flustered by Jaden McDaniels, NAW, or any other team that blitzes him or has lengthy physical wings. Again, he needs the ball closer to the basket off DHOs/elbow screens where they can't easily blitz.

I am aiming to develop for 2-3 years from now. Winning 5 more basketball games having Booker at the 1 instead of CG is not of interest to me, rather developing the system and preserving and maximizing Book's strengths.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 8:30 pm

Well we will enjoy peaking as a Play-In team with Book as our PG and watching him get flustered by Jaden McDaniels, NAW, or any other team that blitzes him or has lengthy physical wings. Again, he needs the ball closer to the basket off DHOs/elbow screens where they can't easily blitz.

I am aiming to develop for 2-3 years from now. Winning 5 more basketball games having Booker at the 1 instead of CG is not of interest to me, rather developing the system and preserving and maximizing Book's strengths.

How exactly does starting a borderline nba pg help us for the future?

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 9:17 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 8:30 pm

Well we will enjoy peaking as a Play-In team with Book as our PG and watching him get flustered by Jaden McDaniels, NAW, or any other team that blitzes him or has lengthy physical wings. Again, he needs the ball closer to the basket off DHOs/elbow screens where they can't easily blitz.

I am aiming to develop for 2-3 years from now. Winning 5 more basketball games having Booker at the 1 instead of CG is not of interest to me, rather developing the system and preserving and maximizing Book's strengths.

How exactly does starting a borderline nba pg help us for the future?

In general, because our winning offensive system is with Booker operating as a scorer at the 2. Set the foundation now, get guys familiar with their roles, and if you don't get a foundational piece (Giddey), then plan to upgrade in the near future and that player can come in with an established culture and identity.

Rubio--->CP3

I will say that JG and Book being our backcourt is idiotic and a mismanagement of assets that is absolutely ridiculous. I see very little chance of success any time soon unless they flip one of them or bring in someone who has a ridiculously unique skill set-for-size who can make up for their shortcomings.

I would never have kept JG. It's worse than having Maluach and Williams because at least Maluach is dirt cheap. We have so much money tied up in those two that we're hamstrung.

You can always move Booker off ball, I would not be worried about that at all.

I think we are in for some ugly basketball if we want Gillespie, Butler, and Goodwin running the show while Booker works off ball all year.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 24, 2025 9:45 pm

You can always move Booker off ball, I would not be worried about that at all.

I think we are in for some ugly basketball if we want Gillespie, Butler, and Goodwin running the show while Booker works off ball all year.

You can't run Booker, Green and any of those guys together. It's a recipe for disaster.

Who do we think wins the battle for backup pg?

Gillespie, Butler, or Goodwin?

Gambo said Gillespie is the backup right now and Butler and Goodwin would be fighting over the 3rd spot. Am I the only one who’s not sold on Gillespie? I kinda think Butler would be the best of those 3. I’m happy to let them all fight for it though and just play whoever fits and produces the best.