Luke Kennard is a Sun!

[Bucktastic365]

I think it's also logical to include Kennard in the Bridges trade analysis since his salary space was created via that trade.

How many women did Kennard beat?

.....away with a stick you mean, right??

[Superbone]

I just don't see much of a team here that meshes. The roster feels like a bunch of dudes.

Yeah I like Kennard as a signing, but I think so far this team is worse than last year's. Last year we had big flaws in the roster such as size, strength, and rebounding. But we had great strengths, such as our 3-point shooting and scoring. I feel like we've become worse at the shooting but I can't see any area where we have measurably improved. We have a bit more scoring in the starting lineup, but it feels like low-yield ball-dominant scoring that is not the kind we need. I don't think Book / Brooks / Green / Br****s is a foursome of guys who mesh well because they all want to hold or pound the ball to varying degrees. We didn't address the PG / offensive initiation problem at all. We didn't get bigger or better at rebounding or interior defense. And we have much less ability to overwhelm the opponent with 3-point bombers and outscore them.

I look at the West and I just don't see this team as one of the better teams. At best we're a road seed like 6-7 and at worst we're fighting for the play-in at the 9-11 spot. I guess the hope would be that some of the other teams that were above us last season (Lakers, Wolves, Blazers) have been making major surgery to their rosters and not all of it will work out, so maybe we could pass some of them. But again, that would require us getting better, and I don't think we did.

The only salvation of this core at this point IMO would be a steal of a Jalen Green trade that brought in a PG or player who can run our offense. But I doubt we pull that off now. And even if we do, no Green/PG trade will undo the dark stain of gleefully bringing in a seemingly unrepentant domestic abuser to our starting lineup.

Even if you set aside the awful abuse stuff, I just hate the direction this shows us to be going. I thought that despite all the squandering of picks in the KD/Beal trades, that we had found a way to soft-reboot around Book, Brooks, and a mostly young core. We had several nice young prospects like Fleming, Oso, ManMan, and Dunn, all of whom showed varying degrees of promise to grow into rotation players. But this summer shows me that they don't really want to value picks and young guys; they're just tools to help them make trades to get splashy veterans. The fact that they traded that 2033 pick the week it became tradable tells you all you need to know. We aren't going to wait this out and come out of our hole in 5-6 years. They're going to keep extending the era in which the cupboard is bare, each 1-2 years, as the draft picks become able to be thrown away.

I don't know if I am "out" like Sose. But I did cancel my League Pass and will maybe just watch the Suns when they're on free cable. Very disappointed in the direction of the team.

Well said.

Weird, I don't see it this way at all. Our youth hasn't gone anywhere. We added to it. I don't get the picks thing either. We swapped one first for another and got an additional 2nd rounder. A collection of dudes? Way too early to make that assessment. Let's see what Coach Ott has in store. Aside from the questionable moral trade, I feel like we have improved, not backslid.

And that's quite the judgement that Bridges is "seemingly unrepentant". What brought you to that conclusion? I have no idea where he's at after being in the middle of 52 months of domestic violence counseling and parenting classes along with 100 hours of community services. What he did was abhorrent and I get not wanting to root for him but I'm also not going to pretend to know how repentant he is.

[Split T]

I think it’s mostly about the value of the pick we traded vs the one we got. We gave up a more valuable one for sure. The one we got is the worst of Minny, Cleveland, Utah, and Charlotte.

[Mori Chu]

Weird, I don't see it this way at all. Our youth hasn't gone anywhere. We added to it. I don't get the picks thing either. We swapped one first for another and got an additional 2nd rounder. A collection of dudes? Way too early to make that assessment. Let's see what Coach Ott has in store. Aside from the questionable moral trade, I feel like we have improved, not backslid.

And that's quite the judgement that Bridges is "seemingly unrepentant". What brought you to that conclusion? I have no idea where he's at after being in the middle of 52 months of domestic violence counseling and parenting classes along with 100 hours of community services. What he did was abhorrent and I get not wanting to root for him but I'm also not going to pretend to know how repentant he is.

We added to our youth by getting Koa Peat, yes. But, (a) we traded away three picks to get him, in yet another example of mortgaging future assets for the present; and (b) we also acquired new players like Br****s who will sit in the rotation in front of other young talent like Fleming. I would much rather have just kept our previous guys and started to ramp up Fleming's role in the rotation at the 4.

When I'm talking about "youth," I'm also talking about the ability to use our own future draft picks to bring in new young players. "We swapped one first for another"? That is literally true but also completely misses the point. The pick we gave away was way more valuable than the swapped-to-shit pick we got back. I value our own pick much more highly than some quadruple-swapped pick where we get the worst 1st out of half the teams in the league. Having our own picks is the very best way to ensure that no matter what happens to us the next few years, we will have a chance to get better by getting a lottery pick. I hate how little we seem to value these picks of our own. I don't think they value the swapped shitty picks either, and I bet they will trade away most of those if the opportunity presents itself.

As for "I feel like we have improved, not backslid" - Have we? If so, how much? Bridges is a better solo scorer than Grayson or Royce, but is that what we needed? Didn't we already have an undersized 4 who doesn't rebound that much and likes to shoot/score, in Dillon Brooks? What major needs of the 2025-26 team does Miles Br****s address? Why give up a completely unprotected future 1st for a guy who doesn't make us much better if at all? Why give up our own valuable assets to take on a guy with a very toxic personal history who probably didn't have many suitors around the league? They should give us some damn picks if they expect us to take a woman beater off their hands. Fuck that! You don't get my 2033 pick for a guy who bludgeons women in front of his kid.

Even if you think Br****s makes us better, do you really think he makes us very much better? Do we break into the group of contenders and semi-contenders in the West? Are we better than any of OKC, SAS, DEN, MIN, HOU, LAL? Why go "all-in" to be a 7 seed? MAYBE a 6 seed if we have the most miraculous season ever? Is that worth mortgaging your picks through 2033 for?

[Superbone]

We will have to agree to disagree, Marty. I think we are better from a pure basketball standpoint. I see us vying for the 5/6 seeds and maybe even a bit higher. I don't see Bridges as an undersized PF unless you want to lump him in with Barkley as being undersized. He will allow Brooks to go back to his natural 3 spot where he is a better fit. PG is what I see as our biggest lineup weakness right now. I'd like to see Green moved to the bench if he's not traded. I'd start CG as we are currently constructed:

Gillespie
Book
Brooks
Bridges
Williams

[Split T]

I still don’t like the Bridges trade, but if you’re looking for things he does that we didn’t have last year:

1. Rim pressure. He can get to the rim and score at the rim. We had almost no one who could do that.

2. While not a great skill of his, he’s a better passer than Brooks or Green. Better outlet for when Book gets doubled.

3. Increases size. We were tiny last year and this balances the roster a bit. He’s not some massive guy, but you can feel better about Bridges as a low man over say Grayson or Royce.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Yeah, I'm absolutely not buying the narrative that the Suns didn't improve.

Bridges is pretty easily the best player that entered or exited the roster and they adeptly diversified a redundant position and skillset in essentially one move. Not to mention a solid draft pick and savvy re-signings.

That's not to say their 2026-27 record is guaranteed to improve, but they're definitely a better team on paper now than they were 3 weeks ago.

[Ring_Wanted]

I believe we improved short term but overpaid for it by a lot. In terms of asset value and maybe also in development options for Fleming and Koa.

[specialsauce]

We're much better.

[Mori Chu]

Yeah, I'm absolutely not buying the narrative that the Suns didn't improve.

Bridges is pretty easily the best player that entered or exited the roster and they adeptly diversified a redundant position and skillset in essentially one move. Not to mention a solid draft pick and savvy re-signings.

That's not to say their 2026-27 record is guaranteed to improve, but they're definitely a better team on paper now than they were 3 weeks ago.

I hope we are better. I think we're going to find that the reduction in our 3-point shooting will hurt us more than any improvements we made in other areas. And I think the most low-value and replaceable thing you can add to an NBA team is "gimme the ball, I'll take the shot" mid/low efficiency scoring. I get that Br****s is a better scorer and finisher than Grayson and Royce. But his percentages aren't awesome and I don't think you want to run an NBA offense through him. And I just don't think his scoring is something we needed urgently compared to other aspects of the game.

But I hope I'm wrong. Worth noting that I was completely wrong about our team last season, predicting 23-29 wins and missing the play-in. So in terms of the on-court team and its results, Ott, Ishbia, and the team deserve a chance. I do think we will be roughly as good as last year, I just don't think we should mortgage valuable future assets and our team's character / integrity to tread water.

[TOO]

Bridges before last year avg 20/7/3.5 on solid percentages, he's being talked about like he's a 4th option because he's human garbage. He's a pretty solid upgrade to the starters. Him and Kennard are an upgrade to what they sent out, I don't care about picks 6 years away, waste of energy, I think the Suns improved.

[O_Gardino]

Bridges has been a 20ish ppg scorer for the last 4 seasons he played, and his team averaged 30ish wins. His 3pt shooting is at the lowest end of "acceptable", but his 2pt shooting is decent. IMO, he's a decent scorer but he doesn't create offense.

OIK, he's not a 4th option, he's co-3rd behind Booker and Green and competing for touches with Brooks. Is he a talent upgrade over Royce? He'll dunk more, and he'll move more in the offence. We really expect him to be a better defender.

[carey]

I hope we are better. I think we're going to find that the reduction in our 3-point shooting will hurt us more than any improvements we made in other areas. And I think the most low-value and replaceable thing you can add to an NBA team is "gimme the ball, I'll take the shot" mid/low efficiency scoring. I get that Br****s is a better scorer and finisher than Grayson and Royce. But his percentages aren't awesome and I don't think you want to run an NBA offense through him. And I just don't think his scoring is something we needed urgently compared to other aspects of the game.

But I hope I'm wrong. Worth noting that I was completely wrong about our team last season, predicting 23-29 wins and missing the play-in. So in terms of the on-court team and its results, Ott, Ishbia, and the team deserve a chance. I do think we will be roughly as good as last year, I just don't think we should mortgage valuable future assets and our team's character / integrity to tread water.

Bridges getting the asterisk treatment before the trade is official is crazy work.

[Superbone]

I hope we are better. I think we're going to find that the reduction in our 3-point shooting will hurt us more than any improvements we made in other areas. And I think the most low-value and replaceable thing you can add to an NBA team is "gimme the ball, I'll take the shot" mid/low efficiency scoring. I get that Br****s is a better scorer and finisher than Grayson and Royce. But his percentages aren't awesome and I don't think you want to run an NBA offense through him. And I just don't think his scoring is something we needed urgently compared to other aspects of the game.

But I hope I'm wrong. Worth noting that I was completely wrong about our team last season, predicting 23-29 wins and missing the play-in. So in terms of the on-court team and its results, Ott, Ishbia, and the team deserve a chance. I do think we will be roughly as good as last year, I just don't think we should mortgage valuable future assets and our team's character / integrity to tread water.

Bridges getting the asterisk treatment before the trade is official is crazy work.

I don't think Marty built it into the site like for players of yore. I think that's just his personal treatment for Bridges. But I also tried some of the older verboten names and it looks like they no longer get the asterisk treatment either.

[Superbone]

[Split T]

I don’t think the shooting is all that different from last year. Grayson quietly had a poor shooting season(35%)…that’s not much different than what we can expect from Bridges. Kennard is a better shooter than either Royce or Grayson…he’s been like 46% over the last 5 years or something…just need to get him to shoot more.

[Ring_Wanted]

Kennard is an historically great shooter. Maybe too picky with his shot selection, but undeniable %s. Before injuries some playmaking too, but not anymore. Still great value for the money. Very good move. Our great need remains to move on from Green, ideally for a pg.

[Mori Chu]

Bridges getting the asterisk treatment before the trade is official is crazy work.

I don't think Marty built it into the site like for players of yore. I think that's just his personal treatment for Bridges. But I also tried some of the older verboten names and it looks like they no longer get the asterisk treatment either.

Bone is right. In the past there were some words that were automatically starred out, usually former unpopular players' names. Like I used to star out Hedo Turkoglu's name because he was such a shitty waste of cap space and a bad signing. I removed all of those because I thought the joke/insult ran its course, and I don't actually want to censor words or content in general unless there's a real problem like harassment. In this case I am just manually ***ing out some parts of our new PF's name as a way of expressing my distaste for his presence on our team. I have no plans to force his name to be censored globally on the board.

[pickle]

I don’t think the shooting is all that different from last year. Grayson quietly had a poor shooting season(35%)…that’s not much different than what we can expect from Bridges. Kennard is a better shooter than either Royce or Grayson…he’s been like 46% over the last 5 years or something…just need to get him to shoot more.

But I think context has to figure into this. Grayson did shoot 35% but he was forced to carry the team when Book was out and he wasn’t good enough of a driver to be always respected so a lot of defenses tried hard to take the three away and he had to take increasingly low percentage shots. I don’t think his 35% compares to Bridges’ at all.

I do think Kennard is a better 3% shooter. He strikes me more as a Duncan Robinson type movement shooter who has gravity even without the ball and has some useful on ball chops in a pinch too. What worries me tho is that he doesn’t seem to shoot from well behind the three point line which both Grayson and Royce did so that cramps the spacing just a touch more. I hope his movement gravity makes up for it.

[TOO]

I don’t think the shooting is all that different from last year. Grayson quietly had a poor shooting season(35%)…that’s not much different than what we can expect from Bridges. Kennard is a better shooter than either Royce or Grayson…he’s been like 46% over the last 5 years or something…just need to get him to shoot more.

But I think context has to figure into this. Grayson did shoot 35% but he was forced to carry the team when Book was out and he wasn’t good enough of a driver to be always respected so a lot of defenses tried hard to take the three away and he had to take increasingly low percentage shots. I don’t think his 35% compares to Bridges’ at all.

I do think Kennard is a better 3% shooter. He strikes me more as a Duncan Robinson type movement shooter who has gravity even without the ball and has some useful on ball chops in a pinch too. What worries me tho is that he doesn’t seem to shoot from well behind the three point line which both Grayson and Royce did so that cramps the spacing just a touch more. I hope his movement gravity makes up for it.

I'm confused, Kennard shoots 44% from 3 for his career.