Phx-Suns.Net

I'm not a big Westbrook fan either. He's a chucker. And looks like Crazy Frog

If we do resign the Morris', we should be getting a package deal discount. Those guys want to stay together so give us a discount to make it happen.

Superbone wrote:If we do resign the Morris', we should be getting a package deal discount. Those guys want to stay together so give us a discount to make it happen.

Why do you think I've been talking abut keeping the pair?

$8 million per combined - if they care about staying together, let them prove it by making it as easy as possible for all parties.

should rename this the offseason thread.

SwingMan wrote:

Superbone wrote:If we do resign the Morris', we should be getting a package deal discount. Those guys want to stay together so give us a discount to make it happen.

Why do you think I've been talking abut keeping the pair?

$8 million per combined - if they care about staying together, let them prove it by making it as easy as possible for all parties.

I think Kieff playing so well this year could push it to about 10m to keep the 2 of them, and if thats the case, I'm calling Philly and trying to get Thad Young instead.

10 Mil for the Morris twins? No thanks.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:

SwingMan wrote:

Superbone wrote:If we do resign the Morris', we should be getting a package deal discount. Those guys want to stay together so give us a discount to make it happen.

Why do you think I've been talking abut keeping the pair?

$8 million per combined - if they care about staying together, let them prove it by making it as easy as possible for all parties.

I think Kieff playing so well this year could push it to about 10m to keep the 2 of them, and if thats the case, I'm calling Philly and trying to get Thad Young instead.

Nah - tonight nonwithstanding, the way Marcus slid off of the face of the earth down the stretch, I'm figuring $8 million per combined: $5.5-$6 per for Markieff, $2-$2.5 per for Marcus.

Kieff and Marcus have proved to be nice contributors, but let's keep in mind that they are quite hollow on defense. They'll need to agree to a decent package discount. I wouldn't want to spend 10M per on them, for instance. 8M combined is what I figured when they showed that they were for real, but really, my first option would still be looking for a trade.

I fantasize about using them to get Taj Gibson, then getting Frye to take a smaller annual amount.

Ring_Wanted wrote:Kieff and Marcus have proved to be nice contributors, but let's keep in mind that they are quite hollow on defense. They'll need to agree to a decent package discount. I wouldn't want to spend 10M per on them, for instance. 8M combined is what I figured when they showed that they were for real, but really, my first option would still be looking for a trade.

I fantasize about using them to get Taj Gibson, then getting Frye to take a smaller annual amount.

First off, the Morris twins' defense, while not stellar, is still far superior to Frye's, yet you want to keep Frye?

Second, Frye has a $6.8 million PO for 2015 - do you think he's gonna let go of that to take one for the team? I'll give you 3 guesses & the first 2 don't count.

Third, we need a post scorer - good as Gibson's defense is, Markieff's post offense is better.

Fourth, Gibson is already 29 years old - with his style of play, he's going to fade soon, and fast.

Sorry - Gibson, IMO, does nothing for this team going forward.

SwingMan wrote: Third, we need a post scorer - good as Gibson's defense is, Markieff's post offense is better.

Fourth, Gibson is already 29 years old - with his style of play, he's going to fade soon, and fast.

Wow, I don't think either one of those points is even remotely close to being true.

I want to keep Frye because of his game with Goran Dragic, and if he is wise, he'll cash in this season and get long term security. The going rate for backup PF/C is around 5M. I think you can get Frye to sign in that range, but I don't consider this a major issue. If he takes his option, he is an expiring contract and thus can be involved in any kind of move, and I don't know if there will be a team that values him more than the Suns.

Kieff's post offense is not remarkable by any means. He has his tricks and has mastered a turnaround jumper, but that's not post scoring.

I don't want Gibson for his post skills. Now that he finally can hit jump shots, I am interested as an upgrade to Kieff, because his defense is worlds better and is not a liability on offense. He is under contract for three more seasons. I can't see the future, but since he has actually improved this season, I'll guess that he can hold his own for the rest of his deal, which exactly meets the prime of most players.

INFORMER wrote:

SwingMan wrote: Third, we need a post scorer - good as Gibson's defense is, Markieff's post offense is better.

Fourth, Gibson is already 29 years old - with his style of play, he's going to fade soon, and fast.

Wow, I don't think either one of those points is even remotely close to being true.

It's not.

INFORMER wrote:

SwingMan wrote: Third, we need a post scorer - good as Gibson's defense is, Markieff's post offense is better.

Fourth, Gibson is already 29 years old - with his style of play, he's going to fade soon, and fast.

Wow, I don't think either one of those points is even remotely close to being true.

I can't predict the future on his health, but I've seen more than enough of his post offense - sans dunking - to know that he has less than little and much less than Markieff.

But you do agree that the move would be lateral at best, right?

Ring_Wanted wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

SwingMan wrote: Third, we need a post scorer - good as Gibson's defense is, Markieff's post offense is better.

Fourth, Gibson is already 29 years old - with his style of play, he's going to fade soon, and fast.

Wow, I don't think either one of those points is even remotely close to being true.

It's not.

I think you're wearing Bulls-colored glasses coming fresh from Fantasy League play if you think Gibson is a net positive for us.

How's about let's trot out the ever=popular PER numbers for example, shall we?

Markieff Morris - 18.48
Taj Gibson - 16.09

Yeah, PER. The stat that accounts best for defense, which again, is Gibson's calling card.

By the way, I've never played fantasy basketball.

RW, I agree with your point that Frye and Dragic work well together. They always have, and will continue to do so, as long as Frye is hitting his shots. I believe that there is enough of a demand for stretch 4s that Frye would get a 4-5 million/year contract for 3-years.

I do NOT, however, think that the Suns should give Frye such a large contract going forwards. He is at an age where he will start declining, although the Warlocks could very well extend his useful career. Given this, I do NOT think that Frye is guaranteed to return to the team, unless he were willing to take a home-team discount (which he might).

Along these lines, I would think that Markieff is worth much more than Marcus. Give Markieff market value (around the MLE) while giving Marcus something closer to the veteran minimum.

Mori Chu wrote:I really dislike Westbrook. I know it's a little silly, but I'd much rather have Dragic than Westbrook on our team, and that's even before you start to consider salary. But stats don't really back me up on that one. It's a sentimental preference, a homer pick.

Mori -- I think that there's some (unclear) statistical support here. Westbrook has better per-36 scoring and assist averages BUT Goran has a TS% of 0.604 while Westbrook has a TS% of 0.545 per basketball-reference. ASSUMING that Goran does not regress next year, the two are statistically comparable. Given how Dragic has generated these numbers as the focal point of the offense (and opposing defenses), I can't see why Goran would retrogress next year, especially if he has work done on his ankles or at least takes the entire summer off.

Carey--I get the point that Goran's due for a big contract after next year. I'd think that he's earned the contract, though, and feel that he's exactly the kind of player that might take a hometown discount. Better than paying Westbrook max money, IMHO. Besides, a ~9 million difference in salary for one year counts for quite a bit.

Uf, vets min for Marcus is way too low. I think he could make 3M easily as a #8-9 off the bench. Full MLE is probably fair for Kieff, but even after this season I don't feel overly comfortable commiting to them.

Frye, on the other hand, is much more specialized and proven at it, and his synergy with Goran is quite important. At the same time, his second half of the season has left a ton to be desired on all fronts, but I am willing to cut him some slack since he didn't play at all last year.

If he took say 4.5M per, four years, I'd keep him. That's a compromise for both sides. But if he opts in, his 6.8M automatically become a trading chip and his tenure with the Suns is not safe.

Ring_Wanted wrote:Yeah, PER. The stat that accounts best for defense, which again, is Gibson's calling card.

By the way, I've never played fantasy basketball.

Exactly - and Markieff rates higher with less minutes.

Not exactly exactly