Phx-Suns.Net

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:What is the argument for Bender over Sabonis? Why do people like the one so much more than the other? Is it outside shooting? Athleticism? "potential"?

I think that's a very good question. We know more of what we're getting with Sabonis. Bender has the potential to be better physically and skills-wise. I'd rather go with the known quantity.

Bender and Sabonis played against each other once when Bender was 16 and Sabonis was 18. Obviously, one game doesn't mean everything, but it's a compelling argument nonetheless.

Bender vs Sabonis

Minutes 29 - 26
Pts 34 - 2
Reb 14 - 11
Ast 2 - 1
Stl 2 - 1
Blk 2 - 2
FG 10/14 - 1/8
FT 5/7 - 0/0
3PT 3/5 - 0/1
TO's 0 - 1

Full game


Box Score
http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_8aYeHl ... B-4-2.html

Superbone wrote:I think that's a very good question. We know more of what we're getting with Sabonis. Bender has the potential to be better physically and skills-wise. I'd rather go with the known quantity.

Look, I don't know enough about scouting and projecting a player's potential to even have an opinion of value. But the way I see it is that Sabonis is a low ceiling high floor player. I don't think he's going to be much more than he already is. He's a hardworking, intangibles, hustle player. I like his game a whole bunch. I think we just need to at least swing for the fences at the #4 spot. I'd be thrilled with Sabonis at 8 or lower though.

Sabonis is like Tristan Thompson with post moves and better feet on D. I would be ok with him at 4, not ecstatic but I would get it. I prefer Hield to him though.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:Sabonis is like Tristan Thompson with post moves and better feet on D. I would be ok with him at 4, not ecstatic but I would get it. I prefer Hield to him though.

I voted for Hield in the "if Bender is gone at #3" poll over at RealGM. I expect that to be the choice actually whether it's for us or someone else, I do not yet know.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:What is the argument for Bender over Sabonis? Why do people like the one so much more than the other? Is it outside shooting? Athleticism? "potential"?

Bender is taller and a better jumper.

I'm leaning towards HIeld & Skal. Not quite where I thought I'd be a couple months ago.

Split T wrote:

gosuns wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:My Picks, in order of availability

#4 - Jamal Murray, Dragan Bender, Buddy Hield

# 13 - Domantas Sabonis, Brice Johnson, Deyonta Davis

#28 - Timothe Luwawu, Thon Maker, Dejounte Murray

I like your picks.

Explain to me the appeal of Jamal Murray, he's a good shooter, but I don't see how he makes sense for us with Booker and Knight on the roster. If we move knight, I guess he makes some sense, but why not just take Buddy, he's an even better shooter.

Both Murray and Booker are about the same age, 19 I believe, and I envision a back court of those two together down the road. Not convinced on either Bledsoe or Knight and really would like to see them both moved now or in the near future. If that is not in the cards, as the saying goes, you never can have too many shooters. Both Murray and Booker are willing passers as well, which is the name of the game in today's NBA. The days of the pass first point guard is over IMO. However you cannot be shoot first either. Watching Golden State play is a thing of beauty. As MDA used to say the ball finds energy and there is plenty of that on their entire roster. I want players that fit that mold.

I see Sabonis as a great fit as well and think he will be there at 13. He reportedly is a willing passer and great rebounder. If he isn't I would not be upset with either Johnson or Davis. I picked Luwawu and Murray for their defensive potential.

Lots of folks are saying this is a very weak draft, we will see.

carey wrote:I'm leaning towards HIeld & Skal. Not quite where I thought I'd be a couple months ago.

Even if Sabonis was available at 13?

I really like this kid:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/video ... s-pro-day/

JustWinBaby wrote:

Split T wrote:

gosuns wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:My Picks, in order of availability

#4 - Jamal Murray, Dragan Bender, Buddy Hield

# 13 - Domantas Sabonis, Brice Johnson, Deyonta Davis

#28 - Timothe Luwawu, Thon Maker, Dejounte Murray

I like your picks.

Explain to me the appeal of Jamal Murray, he's a good shooter, but I don't see how he makes sense for us with Booker and Knight on the roster. If we move knight, I guess he makes some sense, but why not just take Buddy, he's an even better shooter.

Both Murray and Booker are about the same age, 19 I believe, and I envision a back court of those two together down the road. Not convinced on either Bledsoe or Knight and really would like to see them both moved now or in the near future. If that is not in the cards, as the saying goes, you never can have too many shooters. Both Murray and Booker are willing passers as well, which is the name of the game in today's NBA. The days of the pass first point guard is over IMO. However you cannot be shoot first either. Watching Golden State play is a thing of beauty. As MDA used to say the ball finds energy and there is plenty of that on their entire roster. I want players that fit that mold.

I see Sabonis as a great fit as well and think he will be there at 13. He reportedly is a willing passer and great rebounder. If he isn't I would not be upset with either Johnson or Davis. I picked Luwawu and Murray for their defensive potential.

Lots of folks are saying this is a very weak draft, we will see.

It's hard for me to get excited about a guard prospect when our front office has shown no indication that they are moving knight or bledsoe. Also I kinda like bledsoe and think he fits well with Booker. As for Murray, I'd be worried about a Booker-Murray backcourt defensively. If he was the third guard I think it could work. I just think buddy is a better prospect, I think his floor is cj mccollum.

I do like some of your other picks, mostly sabonis and Luwawu.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:What is the argument for Bender over Sabonis? Why do people like the one so much more than the other? Is it outside shooting? Athleticism? "potential"?

I like sabonis at 13 better than bender at 4. Bender profiles as a combo forward, he's more mobile, handles the ball better and shoots better from the outside. Bender could potentially defend 3-5. Sabonis actually moves pretty well defensively as well, but I wouldn't want him covering perimeter players too much.

carey wrote:I'm leaning towards HIeld & Skal. Not quite where I thought I'd be a couple months ago.

I wouldn't complain if he ended up with these two. Skal's potential as stretch four is appealing. I think he could go to MIL or ORL at #10-11. #9 Toronto too, but maybe they want something more polished to win now.

I think Denver makes a nice trading partner. Despite Harris, they could be interested in one of the SG that shouldn't last until #7, and they have a #15. What if we renounce to Hield-Murray, trade down to #7 for Sabonis, use #13 and #15 on two from Korkmaz/Luwawu/Prince/Valentine. Then #28 on Zizic/Juancho. #34 on Payton Jr/Perry Ellis.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:What is the argument for Bender over Sabonis? Why do people like the one so much more than the other? Is it outside shooting? Athleticism? "potential"?

Length, athleticism, and shooting.

I still think Bender is the best prospect in our position, but acknowledge that there are risks with him. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the prospects and could see the Suns draft Murray and Sabonis, and would be happy about it. Even though Murray played shooting guard in college, he's a good ball handler and passer. In fact, I think he's a superior passer to Bledsoe or Knight. And he'd be a better defender and rebounder than Knight. He's also a better shooter than either of them, imo. Sabonis, he's a smart player with toughness, and you can't have enough of those guys. I could also see the Suns go big the entire draft and I wouldn't be upset by that either.

There is a good chance we can get both. I've been an advocate for "Little Sabonis" for a while now, but I think Bender has more upside. I really think there is a good chance of Domantus being there at 13. I like his game, but I think his appeal is littered by some flaws. He was hammered on the boards in their NCAA game vs the Cuse particularly in the 2nd half. I can't think of the Syracuse big that had a big night, but he was gobbling up rebounds and keeping balls alive and sabonis struggled with his athleticism. I do like how skilled Domantus is and he has a nice touch for a big. I would consider a Bender/Sabonis draft one of the better case scenarios. I still wouldn't count out a trade down from 4 or a trade out from 4.

You guys have sold me on Sabonis. He doesn't have the hops I want, but he has an NBA game and an NBA mind already.

With #28, I'm leaning toward Zhou Chi. Tall, long arms, good feet, good jumper. More importantly, he's a quick jumper. There are a ton of highlights of him getting switched onto a point guard in the pick and roll. He does a good job of staying in front of them and denying the drive, so they pull up for a jumper and BAM he's off his feet knocking the ball out of the air.

I would still like to see us trade #4 + Knight for a star or future picks.

I don't think you're getting a star" with that package. A younger guy with potential maybe like in the Noel mold. With Len on board I'm not advocating Nerlens but younger player like that (although, I would much rather have him then Okafor)

JustWinBaby wrote:

Split T wrote:

gosuns wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:My Picks, in order of availability

#4 - Jamal Murray, Dragan Bender, Buddy Hield

# 13 - Domantas Sabonis, Brice Johnson, Deyonta Davis

#28 - Timothe Luwawu, Thon Maker, Dejounte Murray

I like your picks.

Explain to me the appeal of Jamal Murray, he's a good shooter, but I don't see how he makes sense for us with Booker and Knight on the roster. If we move knight, I guess he makes some sense, but why not just take Buddy, he's an even better shooter.

Both Murray and Booker are about the same age, 19 I believe, and I envision a back court of those two together down the road. Not convinced on either Bledsoe or Knight and really would like to see them both moved now or in the near future. If that is not in the cards, as the saying goes, you never can have too many shooters. Both Murray and Booker are willing passers as well, which is the name of the game in today's NBA. The days of the pass first point guard is over IMO. However you cannot be shoot first either. Watching Golden State play is a thing of beauty. As MDA used to say the ball finds energy and there is plenty of that on their entire roster. I want players that fit that mold.

I see Sabonis as a great fit as well and think he will be there at 13. He reportedly is a willing passer and great rebounder. If he isn't I would not be upset with either Johnson or Davis. I picked Luwawu and Murray for their defensive potential.

Lots of folks are saying this is a very weak draft, we will see.

I don't like a Murray/Booker backcourt. Who is your lead guard? I agree that the traditional PG in the Stockton/Kidd mold may be a thing of the past, but I think you still need someone who runs the point who can be a floor general and has the play making ability of a PG. I'll pass on Murray at 4. I'd rather take Dunn then Murray although if we are choosing between those 2 we might be better off dealing the pick if the offer fits. Still think #4 to Philadelphia makes too much sense with their plethora of picks, the Coleangelo's hell bent on speeding up "The process" and their gigantic void in the backcourt.

Murray is the pg in a Murray/ Booker backcourt. The only reason he played off guard at UK was that Ullis was a better passing pg and Murray was big enough and skilled enough to play sg.