Phx-Suns.Net

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

MightyMoog wrote:I don't buy into the IT hype. He's a darned great player, but he's no better than Bledsoe, he just looks shiny because he plays in the leastern conference and actually has a competent coach. The trade was fine, we signed him as a free agent, so we turned cap space into a pick, maybe we could've gotten more, but it was a net positive. I still don't think you can win a championship with him as your starting point guard. The Brandon Knight trade was the only serious mistake, it reeked of the Googs signing, a total panic move.

This is how I feel as well. I wish him well in Boston, but I don't miss him. Glad we got a pick for him, and glad he's working out well for BOS. I don't think he would have been quite as successful here, and even if he had, I don't think I would want that brand of basketball.

There is no way that the Celtics with Bledsoe instead of IT would have been in the same (or better) position. No. Way.

I agree with your statement and don't think it contradicts mine. Lots of players are better or worse in different situations. IT was better for that Celtics team than, say, Bledsoe or Dragic would have been.

I think I meant to quote Moog instead of you. I think it contradicts (at least some what) that post.

Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

I agree. He's not a guy you go after at all costs. I'd rather pass and continue on our current path.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I know this will sound inconsistent since I want us to acquire Kyrie, but I'm not sure I would have wanted a team led by the "Boston" IT. He was a really frustrating player for me to watch. He hogged the ball mercilessly and took crazy/bad shots beyond count. Sometimes he played heroically and looked like our best player out there; his best was better than most anybody else's. But he drove me batty with the bad shots and constantly not seeing the open man.

It does raise the question, why do I want Kyrie so much if I dislike IT so much? Aren't they similar players with similar flaws? Maybe they are. I guess I have more faith in Kyrie's ability to perform well at a high level (read: NBA Finals) than I do for Thomas. I think IT is too short and that his game may not really work as well in a playoff setting. Kyrie can do what he does all the way through a playoff run to a championship. I also have some faith that Kyrie can learn to improve in some ways that IT maybe cannot.

I feel like you do, and I am having a hard time putting it into words why I would want Kyrie but not IT. I think KYRIE can play better D than IT. Kyrie has taken a team on his shoulders on the highest stage, IT comes off as more of a regular season gimmick (I am overstating it here). I think IT has to excel at the expense of his teammate but Kyrie not so much.

Anyway. I could be totally wrong.

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

I think that's why he wants to leave Cleveland. He sees guys like Derozan and IT getting put on the all-nba teams ahead of him when he feels he's better. They get picked over him because they don't have LeBron on their teams.

As for Western all Stars, he's behind Curry, Westbrook, and harden amongst guards, but he's right there with CP3, Lillard, and Klay for the last couple guard spots. I think he probably makes it.

Split T wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

I think that's why he wants to leave Cleveland. He sees guys like Derozan and IT getting put on the all-nba teams ahead of him when he feels he's better. They get picked over him because they don't have LeBron on their teams.

As for Western all Stars, he's behind Curry, Westbrook, and harden amongst guards, but he's right there with CP3, Lillard, and Klay for the last couple guard spots. I think he probably makes it.

There were only 4 Gs on the team last year. And CP3 nor Lilliard made it. If he is in the same ballpark as those guys, but on a 30-35 win team, he won't make it.

Split T wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

I think that's why he wants to leave Cleveland. He sees guys like Derozan and IT getting put on the all-nba teams ahead of him when he feels he's better. They get picked over him because they don't have LeBron on their teams.

As for Western all Stars, he's behind Curry, Westbrook, and harden amongst guards, but he's right there with CP3, Lillard, and Klay for the last couple guard spots. I think he probably makes it.

I think he wants to leave Cleveland because he knows his contract year will be the year Lebron isn't around. And everything that goes bad in Cleveland that year will represent itself in his next contract. He (or his agent) is too smart to let that happen.

Indy wrote:

Split T wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

I think that's why he wants to leave Cleveland. He sees guys like Derozan and IT getting put on the all-nba teams ahead of him when he feels he's better. They get picked over him because they don't have LeBron on their teams.

As for Western all Stars, he's behind Curry, Westbrook, and harden amongst guards, but he's right there with CP3, Lillard, and Klay for the last couple guard spots. I think he probably makes it.

There were only 4 Gs on the team last year. And CP3 nor Lilliard made it. If he is in the same ballpark as those guys, but on a 30-35 win team, he won't make it.

Possibly, although CP3 would have made it last year if he was healthy and many people thought Lillard should have made it. For the record, I think Kyrie is quite a bit better than Lillard. The problem is the West is so deep in the frontcourt that I can't imagine more than 4 guards making it this year again. Try and pick 8 of Durant, Kawhi, Draymond, AD, KAT, PG13, Griffin, Millsap, Gobert, Jordan, Jokic, Gasol, and Cousins.

Indy wrote:

Split T wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

I think that's why he wants to leave Cleveland. He sees guys like Derozan and IT getting put on the all-nba teams ahead of him when he feels he's better. They get picked over him because they don't have LeBron on their teams.

As for Western all Stars, he's behind Curry, Westbrook, and harden amongst guards, but he's right there with CP3, Lillard, and Klay for the last couple guard spots. I think he probably makes it.

I think he wants to leave Cleveland because he knows his contract year will be the year Lebron isn't around. And everything that goes bad in Cleveland that year will represent itself in his next contract. He (or his agent) is too smart to let that happen.

I agree. He knows LeBron is leaving and doesn't want to get stuck with the mess of contracts they signed to build a team around LeBron. He went through that already as a rookie

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Throw in Paul.

EDC wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Throw in Paul.

I'd wait to see how the Paul/Harden combo works first. My guess is Kyrie as the #1 option would put up numbers that would get him in the all Star game over CP3

Split T wrote:

EDC wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Throw in Paul.

I'd wait to see how the Paul/Harden combo works first. My guess is Kyrie as the #1 option would put up numbers that would get him in the all Star game over CP3

With a losing team?

Split T wrote:

EDC wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Throw in Paul.

I'd wait to see how the Paul/Harden combo works first. My guess is Kyrie as the #1 option would put up numbers that would get him in the all Star game over CP3

I really doubt that. Kyrie may score more, but CP3 will put up better overall numbers and better defense on a better team. Assuming everybody stays healthy, I'd be shocked to see Kyrie make the team over CP3.

Same goes for Klay.

Then Kyrie comes into the discussion, along with Lillard and Conley.

CP3 will get voted in. Houston has so many asian fans because of Yao, I think he'll walk into a starting spot next year.

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Indy wrote:Also, for the folks that are saying Kyrie is a great asset so we should pretty willing to get him... I think at one point someone even went so far as to call him a superstar. This is a guy that likely wouldn't make the all-star team in the west, and even when you look at all-nba selections, he once made the team a couple years ago as a 3rd team selection. That is basically Goran Dragic territory. Would anyone call him a superstar?

What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Sorry, I didn't mean my question as, "Try to name a single guard better than Kyrie, because you can't, he's the best!" I just wanted to hear people's lists of the top-N guards in the West and hear where Kyrie fell on those lists.

To me he arguably would have a good chance to make the all-star team depending on his play and how our team did. If we had a really awful record, he might miss out. But if we were around .500 or better (possible, not sure how likely) and Kyrie were putting up 25+ ppg (much more likely), I think he might get in. I agree that Westbrook, Harden, and Curry are all about as good or better than Kyrie, but you can make a case that their numbers could dip in any given year. Curry is now playing with KD and might choose to pace himself. Harden won't have the ball as much with CP3 running the offense. Westbrook now has to actually share shots with PG13. Not that I'm saying these guys are worse than Kyrie or won't make the All-Star team, just that Kyrie might sneak in with them and be selected.

Cap wrote:

Split T wrote:

EDC wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
What West guards are very likely to beat out Kyrie for the All-Star team?

You mean other than Westbrook, Harden, and Curry?

Throw in Paul.

I'd wait to see how the Paul/Harden combo works first. My guess is Kyrie as the #1 option would put up numbers that would get him in the all Star game over CP3

I really doubt that. Kyrie may score more, but CP3 will put up better overall numbers and better defense on a better team. Assuming everybody stays healthy, I'd be shocked to see Kyrie make the team over CP3.

Same goes for Klay.

Then Kyrie comes into the discussion, along with Lillard and Conley.

I think it could go either way. Definitely wouldn't be shocked to see Kyrie over CP3. Could easily see Kyrie put up 28/6 type numbers on a team where he's the top option. That's going to get him into the all Star game. Even if he just repeats his numbers from last year, he'd be in the running. I'd definitely put him in over Klay.

i don't care if he makes the all-star team based on competition in the west.
he's all-star quality and has played like a superstar in a good number of playoff games the last 2 seasons
and it's probably more likely he steps up his game without lebron, than that he steps back

that being said. i'm still more intrigued with the "timeline" and don't want to give up a lot to get him

Most likely Irving's scoring and assists will go up and his efficiency will go down.