Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Split T]

Moving away from Ayton…let’s focus on upgrading the 4 spot. If any of you listened to the timeline pod, they talked about Crowder being a likely upgrade spot. He’s on an expiring contract and we can match salary with just about anyone due to a lot of contracts in that 5-10 million range. Who would you target as a Crowder upgrade?

Harrison Barnes is my first thought…you could send Crowder and Craig(both expiring) and the salaries match up. We’d probably need to throw in a 2nd or 2, I don’t think I’d include a 1st.

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Barnes/Ayton

Not a massive upgrade, but just the right type of upgrade. He’s big, longer than Jae and defends. He’s a better shooter than Jae and he can actually create off the dribble. He puts more pressure on the rim than anyone else on our team. I think he’d be a no-brainer.

The timeline guys mentioned Jerami Grant…also an expiring. Also an upgrade in that he can do a lot more off the dribble. He’s a little more expensive, but Crowder/Saric gets it done salary wise.

They also mentioned Julius Randle and Sam from the timeline has been pumping that up on Twitter this morning. Crowder/Saric is enough to match salaries. I don’t love it because I’m not a Randle guy…but he does bring off the dribble creation and a lot of rim pressure. I’ve never seen him as someone who plays well with others…he kinda needs the ball so he’d be a bad fit with CP3. Also Ayton would have to go to create spacing. Mike from the timeline said he’d want to flip Ayton for Turner in that case.

You could also just play Cam J at the 4 and trade Crowder/Saric to Houston for Eric Gordon.

John Collins could be had for Crowder/Saric salary wise.

You’d have to add a 3rd contract to get KLove(Crowder/Saric/Craig).

If you want to go crazy, Crowder, Saric, Shamet, Payne could get you Tobias Harris awful contract.


Thoughts?

I’m simply just talking contract matching in most of these trades, I understand we’d need to include draft capital in most of them.

[Indy]

I think David's take of "Jae is gone" is a solid one just given the fact that you can't pay Cam J 15-20M/year and have him come off the bench, and I don't see good value in just moving Jae to the bench as an expiring 10M deal.

I honestly think you go all in with Cam at the starting 4 and see what he can do. Then use Jae and another asset to get another wing that is at least as big as Cam. Like a Nance who is making the same as Jae.

I mean I would much prefer a way to get Siakim, but I just don't see it happening.

[Split T]

Ya you can make it work financially, but no way Toronto moves Siakam without Ayton or another major piece involved.

Though I will say that Cam won’t be making 15-20 million until 2023, so he’ll still be a 6 million dollar player next year. So you could just run it out with Crowder, let him expire, and move Cam J into the starting lineup the year after.

It’s why I like the Barnes deal…he’s expiring too so you have options next summer as well.

[Indy]

Ya you can make it work financially, but no way Toronto moves Siakam without Ayton or another major piece involved.

Though I will say that Cam won’t be making 15-20 million until 2023, so he’ll still be a 6 million dollar player next year. So you could just run it out with Crowder, let him expire, and move Cam J into the starting lineup the year after.

It’s why I like the Barnes deal…he’s expiring too so you have options next summer as well.

Yes but I think Jae as an expiring deal and good player in the 10M range is a valuable asset to use.

[Split T]

Ya you can make it work financially, but no way Toronto moves Siakam without Ayton or another major piece involved.

Though I will say that Cam won’t be making 15-20 million until 2023, so he’ll still be a 6 million dollar player next year. So you could just run it out with Crowder, let him expire, and move Cam J into the starting lineup the year after.

It’s why I like the Barnes deal…he’s expiring too so you have options next summer as well.

Yes but I think Jae as an expiring deal and good player in the 10M range is a valuable asset to use.

True…I would move him.

Will say that I’m worried we might move Mikal. He’s really the piece that could actually get us another on ball star. And it might be a good trade, but I’m not gonna like it, I really like Mikal and want him to be here for a long time.

[TOO]

Maaaan, if Jones trades Bridges I might retire my Suns fandom and wait til the Sonics return and root for them instead.

[Split T]

I wouldn’t give up my fandom, but I for sure wouldn’t like it.

Here I think is my dream scenario:

Crowder/Craig/2 2nds to Sacramento for Harrison Barnes

Ayton/Saric/Payne for KAT/Bolmaro

Sign Hartenstein and Gary Harris, bring back Aaron Holiday, Ish Wainright, and Bismack Biyombo.

Paul-Shamet-Holiday
Booker-Harris-Shamet
Bridges-Cam J-Bolmaro
Barnes-Cam J-Wainright
KAT-Hartenstein-Biyombo

If we can’t do the KAT trade(we probably can’t) then send Ayton to Indy for Turner and whoever they take at 6(hopefully Keegan Murray).

Paul-Payne-Shamet
Booker-Harris-Shamet
Bridges-Cam J-Wainright
Barnes-Murray-Wainright
Turner-Hartenstein-Saric

[Mori Chu]

Crowder had some matchup problems in the playoffs this year. Problem is, I felt like in this year's playoffs we just didn't have enough "mofos" on the team, enough tough ass veterans who were unafraid of the big moments. Crowder was unafraid; Booker was unafraid. Paul was mostly unafraid until he mysteriously became very tentative after Mavs Game 2, likely due to an injury. Other than that, I didn't really trust anybody. Bridges was airballing 3s. Ayton put up numbers but couldn't be relied upon to carry us. Cam Johnson was encouraging and made some 3s but was not consistent. JaVale wasn't afraid but he doesn't always play within himself.

I worry about the overall toughness of the team if our frontcourt is Bridges, Cam Johnson, Ayton. I like all of those players and want them here, but Crowder adds an important snarl to our front line.

[Shabazz]

Another package I could be interested in: Onyeka Okongwu and John Collins. I think we’d have to give up more to make it cap compliant.

[Indy]

Another package I could be interested in: Onyeka Okongwu and John Collins. I think we’d have to give up more to make it cap compliant.

I like the potential of OO. I really like his ability to get FTAs on such limited FGAs. We are so limited in that area.

[specialsauce]

I wouldn’t give up my fandom, but I for sure wouldn’t like it.

Here I think is my dream scenario:

Crowder/Craig/2 2nds to Sacramento for Harrison Barnes

Ayton/Saric/Payne for KAT/Bolmaro

Sign Hartenstein and Gary Harris, bring back Aaron Holiday, Ish Wainright, and Bismack Biyombo.

Paul-Shamet-Holiday
Booker-Harris-Shamet
Bridges-Cam J-Bolmaro
Barnes-Cam J-Wainright
KAT-Hartenstein-Biyombo

If we can’t do the KAT trade(we probably can’t) then send Ayton to Indy for Turner and whoever they take at 6(hopefully Keegan Murray).

Paul-Payne-Shamet
Booker-Harris-Shamet
Bridges-Cam J-Wainright
Barnes-Murray-Wainright
Turner-Hartenstein-Saric

I like that trade, I just need another guard that can be relied upon when Paul collapses late in the year

[specialsauce]

The only trade I kind of like in that article is the Atlanta one for Clint Capela and Bogdan Bogdanovic. Most of the others made me gag a little. ATL at least has a lot of assets that we could acquire in return for DA.

I like that

[Superbone]

Maaaan, if Jones trades Bridges I might retire my Suns fandom and wait til the Sonics return and root for them instead.

It would be cruel and unusual from Jones. Mikal loves his teammates and being here.

[Split T]

They obviously want to keep Mikal and I still think it’s very unlikely, but if they are set on adding a 3rd star and find it hard to accomplish with Ayton as the centerpiece…Mikal becomes really the only option. Unless you unload the 4 unprotected future 1sts package.

Personally I think if we can hold onto Paul/Booker/Cam/Bridges, I’d unload everything else if we can get a 3rd star and some backcourt depth. I’d be perfectly fine using exceptions and vet min deals to fill our center role. And ideally the 3rd star we snag is either a C(KAT) or can play some small ball 5(LeBron, Siakam).

If KAT was an option, what would you be willing to attach to Ayton to get him? And I’m not talking salary filler which is how I’d classify anything from the Saric/Shamet/Payne/Craig group. I’m close to adding Crowder as his expiring contract has value, but he also has real value as a player. In order of what I’d give up 1st:

1st rd pick
Crowder
2 1sts
Cam J
This would be my line, I would try to get them to take some sort of Crowder and 2 1sts deal, but if I had to I’d give up Cam J. Nothing below here would be on the table.
3 1sts
Mikal
4 1sts
Booker

[Split T]

Would it be possible to get Barnes/Holmes/#4?

What besides Ayton would we have to give up?

Would Ayton/Crowder/CamJ for Barnes/Holmes/Holiday/#4 work?

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Barnes/Holmes
Payne/Shamet/Holiday/Craig

You could use the 4th pick on Ivey and get some backcourt depth plus a potential CP3 replacement or go for wing or big depth.

We’d need to add depth as that bench isn’t great and we’d really only have the 4th pick and taxpayer MLE to do it.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I think we can put Cam Johnson in the same group with Mikal as guys they'd only trade if they were getting back a star-level player. The #4 pick wouldn't be enough unless it's also getting flipped for the star.

[specialsauce]

Would it be possible to get Barnes/Holmes/#4?

What besides Ayton would we have to give up?

Would Ayton/Crowder/CamJ for Barnes/Holmes/Holiday/#4 work?

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Barnes/Holmes
Payne/Shamet/Holiday/Craig

You could use the 4th pick on Ivey and get some backcourt depth plus a potential CP3 replacement or go for wing or big depth.

We’d need to add depth as that bench isn’t great and we’d really only have the 4th pick and taxpayer MLE to do it.

Fuck rookies and draft picks not on this timeline and definitely not trading our star pieces for one

[Indy]

Would it be possible to get Barnes/Holmes/#4?

What besides Ayton would we have to give up?

Would Ayton/Crowder/CamJ for Barnes/Holmes/Holiday/#4 work?

Paul/Booker/Bridges/Barnes/Holmes
Payne/Shamet/Holiday/Craig

You could use the 4th pick on Ivey and get some backcourt depth plus a potential CP3 replacement or go for wing or big depth.

We’d need to add depth as that bench isn’t great and we’d really only have the 4th pick and taxpayer MLE to do it.

I would probably do that deal if it didn't include Cam. I think. I am that meme of the women tasting something new.

The thing I like about Barnes is that
1) He only has one more year on his deal, and only at 18M
2) He is much more efficient than he used to be. He gets to the line more now than he did while taken less 3s and 50% more FGA back in his Dallas days.

I am not sure about Holmes. I probably would have been much more on the yes side before all of that news came out about his kid. But then I think I heard he was awarded custody?

[Split T]

Yes I believe he won the lawsuit

Cam J may be a touch too much..the way I see it

Crowder to Barnes is an upgrade
Cam J to Holiday is a downgrade
Ayton to Holmes is a downgrade

Do the first two cancel out? I think it’s probably close…so then is #4 worth the downgrade from Ayton to Holmes.

You would have to believe in whoever you’re getting at 4. They’d need to be a playoff level rotation guy right away and be able to be a top 3 guy for the future. It honestly probably doesn’t work for either team. It’s too much right now value for us to give up and I don’t think Sacramento would do it without Cam J.

[Flagrant Fowl]