Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:21 pm

I still don’t get the amount of hate Beal gets…he’s a terrible fit this year…but that was mostly because we signed Tyus Jones and Nurk became an absolute of a basketball player.

The offensive fit works…it doesn’t work defensively at all. I don’t think that’s Beals fault. I’ve seen more effort defensively from him than I have Booker. I don’t know what Booker’s deal is this year, but he hasn’t been good. Beal is just small and so are Tyus and Booker. Nurk sucks and KD is 36.

Beal is massively overpaid and he can’t stay healthy…I think those are fair things to complain about…I don’t get complaining about his play on the court.

What play on the court? He can't stay healthy for 10 games in a row. It's the most ridiculous situation ever.

Have you watched him or been to games and seen him on the bench? He sits totally alone at the end of the bench, doesn't participate in the huddles and doesn't talk to his teammates. He's a prima Donna

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:50 pm

I’m hoping for a Jimmy deal to get done but even if it doesn’t, I’m positive Beal is probably gone by deadline. Just seems we are headed for a major shakeup with him.

He GONE for sure. Good riddance. My dark horse guess is if Butler doesn't pan out by Jan 15 we trade for Nic Claxton, getting a third team to take Beal. My dream would be Claxton and Johnson.

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

He's also an idiot. He makes careless, crucial turnovers, defensive lapses that have nothing to do with size (stupid fouls, missed rotation, ball watching).

I would stop watching games if we retooled around Beal and KD.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

It would be better roster wise than any other moves. Just use the Houston idea, you get all your picks back and 2 young talents to grow with when you eventually move on from KD and Beal and open up that cap space. Or you keep Booker, have no picks and hope it works with Jimmy. I know which I prefer

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:04 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

He's also an idiot. He makes careless, crucial turnovers, defensive lapses that have nothing to do with size (stupid fouls, missed rotation, ball watching).

Booker Beal or KD?

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:00 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:21 pm

I still don’t get the amount of hate Beal gets…he’s a terrible fit this year…but that was mostly because we signed Tyus Jones and Nurk became an absolute of a basketball player.

The offensive fit works…it doesn’t work defensively at all. I don’t think that’s Beals fault. I’ve seen more effort defensively from him than I have Booker. I don’t know what Booker’s deal is this year, but he hasn’t been good. Beal is just small and so are Tyus and Booker. Nurk sucks and KD is 36.

Beal is massively overpaid and he can’t stay healthy…I think those are fair things to complain about…I don’t get complaining about his play on the court.

What play on the court? He can't stay healthy for 10 games in a row. It's the most ridiculous situation ever.

Have you watched him or been to games and seen him on the bench? He sits totally alone at the end of the bench, doesn't participate in the huddles and doesn't talk to his teammates. He's a prima Donna

He’s played in 76 out of 115 games…which is 66% of the games. Not great…I said as much, but I’m evaluating strictly the 76 games he’s played:

18.1/4.4/4.2 and shooting 50/42/80 for a .597 TS%

That’s good production…it’s not supermax production at all, but every team in the league would want that production if it was on say 18 million a year.

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:08 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:04 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

He's also an idiot. He makes careless, crucial turnovers, defensive lapses that have nothing to do with size (stupid fouls, missed rotation, ball watching).

Booker Beal or KD?

Yes lol

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:04 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

He's also an idiot. He makes careless, crucial turnovers, defensive lapses that have nothing to do with size (stupid fouls, missed rotation, ball watching).

His turnovers aren’t that high…but yes he’s not a good defensive player, he never has been. KD is the turnover king, not Beal.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:12 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:04 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:02 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:47 pm

I also like Beal as a player, probably more than Booker, but he hasn't been anywhere near what he was in Washington because as you said, it's a terrible fit. Also the health has been bad, but that goes for the whole mid 3, I think this team works with either Booker or Beal and KD just fine, probably even better with Beal because he's a better shooter but the redundancy was just too much. If you can defend or rebound because youre too small, it doesn't matter how good your offensive players are.

I agree with this…a lot of the reasons he hasn’t been as good as in Washington is because he’s being asked to play more of a Ray Allen role. Much less time on ball..but he’s shooting at career high levels. He’s pretty good in the Ray Allen role. Just doesn’t fit defensively next to two other small/bad defensive guards.

I don’t want to trade Booker because he’s been here 10 years. He’s been great for suns basketball and he’s gone through some rough stuff with us as fans…but I can’t deny that I’ve thought about how we could retool around KD/Beal if we moved Book.

He's also an idiot. He makes careless, crucial turnovers, defensive lapses that have nothing to do with size (stupid fouls, missed rotation, ball watching).

His turnovers aren’t that high…but yes he’s not a good defensive player, he never has been. KD is the turnover king, not Beal.

KDs are the most infuriating because they’re always lazy passes.

You can't just look at Beal's numbers. His style of play doesn't win games and he doesn't do any of the little things winning players do. He a fake try hard. We were excited about Nurk's double doubles when he got here and we know he doesn't contribute to winning. Beal's the same way.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:05 pm

I would stop watching games if we retooled around Beal and KD.

I’ve already stopped(temporarily)…haha…though I might check in to see how the new rotation does tonight.

For me it would depend on what we got for Booker. The Houston deal would be more of a total rebuild for me and I’d want to move Beal and KD as well…but what if we sent Booker to Miami for Jimmy and a bunch of draft capital…enough that we could also turn Nurk into a real C and still have some ammo moving forward.

Jones/Beal/Butler/KD/Real C

That’s not bad. You still have the problem of health as none of those big 3 have proven to stay healthy, but you at least have a real roster.

Again, I wouldn’t do it…if I’m trading Booker it’s because I want to tear it all down, but there’s no question you could field a better lineup if you did it.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:16 pm

You can't just look at Beal's numbers. His style of play doesn't win games and he doesn't do any of the little things winning players do. He a fake try hard. We were excited about Nurk's double doubles when he got here and we know he doesn't contribute to winning. Beal's the same way.

Lemme ask you something, who was Devin Booker before Chris Paul? Booker isn't doing anything special or trying hard to be a winner either. Roster construction is a big part of being a winner. Booker can be goaded by physical play into being a total moron. These guys are more similar than you'd like to believe.

Beal over Book??? Wat

re-tool with Beal and KD???


wtf is being said here????? I know we down bad but come on. Especially Beal talk, he hasn’t done shit to earn any type of benefit of doubt. Dude is all talk, last year talking about how he’s never been sweep in his entire life then preceded to have the biggest disaster class game of the whole series. I don’t hate him or nothing, but he hasn’t done anything here that will make think fondly of his time as a sun. It didn’t work, it sucks, it is what it is. I’ll be happy when he’s gone.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:16 pm

You can't just look at Beal's numbers. His style of play doesn't win games and he doesn't do any of the little things winning players do. He a fake try hard. We were excited about Nurk's double doubles when he got here and we know he doesn't contribute to winning. Beal's the same way.

Who was excited about Nurk’s double doubles? And Nurk did contribute to winning last year. He was good for us during the regular season…we changed his role and stopped using him for the one thing he does well offensively(screen and short roll playmaking).

What about his style of play doesn’t win games? Outside of availability he’s better than Grayson Allen at everything. Why don’t we see as much complaining about Grayson? We didn’t have Beal on the court problems last year(well outside of game 4). It was just availability…What changed?

We fixed our lack of a pg and turnover problems, but we added a useless C problem and a way too small defensively problem…also a Booker regression problem.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:22 pm

Beal over Book??? Wat

re-tool with Beal and KD???


wtf is being said here????? I know we down bad but come on. Especially Beal talk, he hasn’t done shit to earn any type of benefit of doubt. Dude is all talk, last year talking about how he’s never been sweep in his entire life then preceded to have the biggest disaster class game of the whole series. I don’t hate him or nothing, but he hasn’t done anything here that will make think fondly of his time as a sun. It didn’t work, it sucks, it is what it is. I’ll be happy when he’s gone.

I'll only be happy when they are all gone

You trade KD to Houston and get back what you can and re-tool around Book. That saves the team the trouble of a full teardown/tank and searching for a new star. He's a cornerstone you can put roleplayers around. We'd need a true PG and legit frntcourt player and we're just about back to where we were 3 years ago.

Book still has reliable, fundamentally sound go-to moves. He was leading the team the first year under Monty and in the bubble. Beal is a small volume scorer with no reliable offense. And at least at this point, we have proof Book can be part of a winning team and culture. I think he's not as engaged because these coaches aren't connecting with him or anyone else. They're retreads. Players know right away when a coach is full of it or not a fit. Vogel and Bud aren't good fits here. I'm much more confident these guys would be responding to Lue or Udoka regardless of the roster issues.

I think Nurk is just washed now. It’s true he helped a lot last year until he didn’t tho. Similar to how CP became a shell of himself when he turned 37, I think all the juice Nurk had left was squeezed out last year and by the end of the year it was over for him, now he doesn’t have anything left. I think he’s in the denial stage right now.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:22 pm

Beal over Book??? Wat

re-tool with Beal and KD???


wtf is being said here????? I know we down bad but come on. Especially Beal talk, he hasn’t done shit to earn any type of benefit of doubt. Dude is all talk, last year talking about how he’s never been sweep in his entire life then preceded to have the biggest disaster class game of the whole series. I don’t hate him or nothing, but he hasn’t done anything here that will make think fondly of his time as a sun. It didn’t work, it sucks, it is what it is. I’ll be happy when he’s gone.

It’s not really about Beal…we have to attach assets to him to get off his contract. That alone makes using him to upgrade a problem. You wouldn’t need to do that with Booker. I think Beal would be better if you separated him from Booker…they don’t fit together, not if you also want Tyus Jones to play.

Personally I’d blow the whole thing up…but if you want to absolutely maximize this year and next…I can see an argument for moving Book…of course this is in a video game world. I said as much in the beginning that I wouldn’t actually do it…you’d have to deal with too many other consequences, including KD certainly asking out in the very near future.

I hope we can convince someone to take Beal, but I just don’t see it making enough of a difference to justify mortgaging any more of the future.

For the record, I would absolutely move Beal and 31 for Jimmy…I just don’t see Miami doing it or us finding a 3rd team to pull it off.

We’ll probably end up with something like Vucevic and Lonzo Ball while also having to trade away 2031…that isn’t worth it to me.