NBA Draft Prospects Discussion

[Shabazz]

I wouldn't be opposed to taking both Bender and Sabonis. Not sure how I feel about Bender, but I think the two of them could play together and either of them could play next to Len.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I also like Sabonis, but he's not going to be around at pick 13.

I was 100% for Buddy Hield at #4, but I'm fine with the Suns taking a gamble on Bender if that's what they decide. He looks so much more athletic than Len.

[OE32]

I also like Sabonis, but he's not going to be around at pick 13.

I was 100% for Buddy Hield at #4, but I'm fine with the Suns taking a gamble on Bender if that's what they decide. He looks so much more athletic than Len.

I think it's about 50/50 whether Sabonis is available at 13 - I go back and forth, but teams can get enamored with potential, and there are three guys - Chriss, Skal, Davis - with whom GMs might become infatuated, leaving Sabonis to slide. Edit: To be clear, these three are the three bigs on whom I pass in this draft. Bender, Sabonis and Ellenson FTW.

I've been vacillating between lukewarm and hot on Ellenson - he's a 4/5, and next to Len, he's not a perfect fit, as neither can run out to guard the 3 point line. You need another big in that rotation who can cover the P&R and run out on shooters. Still, I've little doubt he'll be a great scoring and rebounding big in the NBA. Unselfish, too. When he puts some muscle on those massive shoulder's, he'll be a load inside and out.

The guy I want at 13 is now decidedly Dejounte Murray. I don't even have a solid second option because he's so far ahead of the pack for me. Put twenty pounds on that kid and he'll be a perfect fit next to Booker, IMO.

If I'm trading down from #4, I'm looking for a future pick or swap rights in the deal. Since I'm open to either Sabonis or Ellenson, I could go as low as #11. I'd look into making some sort of deal with Milwaukee, who may also have interest in Tyson Chandler, but I'm not sure who or what I would want coming back, as I assume Middleton would not be on the table.

I think Bender is worth the risk at #4, and he fits our (long) timeline. Won't push anyone for minutes right away. My thinking right now is that the Suns plan to take Bender if he's there, and if he's not, they'll trade down and grab Sabonis. While I'd be just as happy with Ellenson, the dinner's our tell.

The guys slipping on my board right now are Brown and Valentine. Denzel may just be John Salmons. Brown is... well you know what I think of Brown. I have him going to the Bulls at #14 currently.

[INFORMER]

Domantas Sabonis. Petr Cornelie. Denzel Valentine. Buddy Hield. Brice Johnson. Ante Zizic. Timothe Luwawu. DeAndre Bembry. Kay Felder. Joel Bolomboy.

I like a lot of these guys, I'm interested in your take on Petr Cornelie, I'd never even heard of him until I read a write-up on I think BSOTS. He seems very intriguing.

I'm really sold on him. I think he could be the quintessential role player on a winning team. I like his measurables, shooting touch, and reported team/lockerroom presence.

[INFORMER]

The guy I want at 13 is now decidedly Dejounte Murray. I don't even have a solid second option because he's so far ahead of the pack for me. Put twenty pounds on that kid and he'll be a perfect fit next to Booker, IMO.

Murray is too unskilled and excels at nothing. Pass.

Denzel may just be John Salmons.

Salmons was never the shooter or passer Valentine was in college. The thing that scares me about Valentine is his defense. I'm really trying to decide between him and Deandre Bembry.

[OE32]

The guy I want at 13 is now decidedly Dejounte Murray. I don't even have a solid second option because he's so far ahead of the pack for me. Put twenty pounds on that kid and he'll be a perfect fit next to Booker, IMO.

Murray is too unskilled and excels at nothing. Pass.

Denzel may just be John Salmons.

Salmons was never the shooter or passer Valentine was in college. The thing that scares me about Valentine is his defense. I'm really trying to decide between him and Deandre Bembry.

Murray averages 6+ RPG as a 6'4 freshman guard - that's excellent. Gets to the basket extremely well; tremendous ballhandling skills. Great length, should be able to get plenty of steals at the pro level. Plays with tremendous energy. Passes and scores. The knocks on him are that he's too skinny and can't shoot.

With Valentine, I don't just worry about defense, but his athleticism in general. He excels at beating up on kids. Is he going to be able to get that shot off at the pro level? Is he fast enough to make a difference on offense? Hard to see how he excels. I pass at 13.

[INFORMER]

Murray averages 6+ RPG as a 6'4 freshman guard - that's excellent. Gets to the basket extremely well; tremendous ballhandling skills. Great length, should be able to get plenty of steals at the pro level. Plays with tremendous energy. Passes and scores. The knocks on him are that he's too skinny and can't shoot.

His point guard skills are lacking and he can't shoot. With those weaknesses, the fancy dribbling and rebounding really aren't significant enough to spend a pick on him, especially with how easy it is to get a point guard.

[INFORMER]

With Valentine, I don't just worry about defense, but his athleticism in general. He excels at beating up on kids. Is he going to be able to get that shot off at the pro level? Is he fast enough to make a difference on offense? Hard to see how he excels. I pass at 13.

He can shoot. Period. I don't get the "beating up on kids" stuff. We're not talking about a big man with a pro body pounding thin freshmen in the post.

The reigning NBA champion has two guys, Curry and Green, who were knocked for their lack of athleticism. When a player is a flat out basketball player and highly skilled, I don't tend to worry about the combine stuff.

Valentine isn't going to be a first or second option, but I can see him being a great shooter, a high basketball IQ guy, and terrific threat at running the point from the small forward position.

[carey]

With Valentine, I don't just worry about defense, but his athleticism in general. He excels at beating up on kids. Is he going to be able to get that shot off at the pro level? Is he fast enough to make a difference on offense? Hard to see how he excels. I pass at 13.

He can shoot. Period. I don't get the "beating up on kids" stuff. We're not talking about a big man with a pro body pounding thin freshmen in the post.

The reigning NBA champion has two guys, Curry and Green, who were knocked for their lack of athleticism. When a player is a flat out basketball player and highly skilled, I don't tend to worry about the combine stuff.

Valentine isn't going to be a first or second option, but I can see him being a great shooter, a high basketball IQ guy, and terrific threat at running the point from the small forward position.

I can't remember if I posted it here but my draft right now goes 2 ways. I pair a boom-or-bust player with a safe pick. 1) Bender then Valentine. 2) Hield then Skal.

[INFORMER]

Not a bad strategy.

[INFORMER]

At the same time, I think you have to be careful when labeling guys safe.

Hield could struggle to efficient and accurate, and his passing deficiencies could really hamper his offensive value.

Valentine defensive limitations could make him unplayable.

Guys like Mateen Cleaves, Alando Tucker, even Frank Kaminsky, were chosen as safe picks and went on to really struggle. I know you know any pick could fail to certain extent, I'm just saying there may not be any real value in labeling prospects as "safe picks."

[carey]

Guys like Mateen Cleaves, Alando Tucker, even Frank Kaminsky, were chosen as safe picks and went on to really struggle. I know you know any pick could fail to certain extent, I'm just saying there may not be any real value in labeling prospects as "safe picks."

Maybe the better term should be "experienced."

Also, from today, Ellenson is in for a solo work out.
https://twitter.com/DaveKingNBA/status/740252495964831744

[INFORMER]

It bothers me that Sabonis went with the solo workout.

[Cap]

Why?

[INFORMER]

I just feel he isn't rated high enough to demand that. If I were NBA personnel, I'd like to be able to put him up against someone athletic and long and see how he fairs.

[In2ition]

Murray averages 6+ RPG as a 6'4 freshman guard - that's excellent. Gets to the basket extremely well; tremendous ballhandling skills. Great length, should be able to get plenty of steals at the pro level. Plays with tremendous energy. Passes and scores. The knocks on him are that he's too skinny and can't shoot.

His point guard skills are lacking and he can't shoot. With those weaknesses, the fancy dribbling and rebounding really aren't significant enough to spend a pick on him, especially with how easy it is to get a point guard.

Hmm, why do you say he can't shoot? From all accounts, that's one of his strengths. As far as pg skills, he's a decent passer, although it feels like he'd rather just score himself, then set up others.

[INFORMER]

In2, we're talking about Dejounte, not Jamal.

[TOO]

We already have a Dejounte type in Goodwin, we don't need another guy who can't shoot. Especially if he is a guard.

[In2ition]

In2, we're talking about Dejounte, not Jamal.

Ah, my bad. Doh!

[In2ition]

BTW, it sucks that the Suns don't have a coach that can fix jump shots(in their defense, very few teams do), like Chip Engelland.