Phx-Suns.Net

Superbone wrote:I don't care what the Cavs do as long as we stay out of it. (Standard disclaimer: Unless it is as a facilitator in a way that helps #TheTimeline)

Cavs fans are soiling themselves with excitement over the possibility of getting Jackson right now.

https://twitter.com/sheridanhoops/status/897906465960316929 https://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/897667664973357056 The second tweet touches on politics, which I don't want to really get into in the Suns/NBA section. (Feel free to join us in the Politics section if you do want to talk about that.) I only post it because it may be relevant to Lebron's plans. If he has various disagreements and issues with the ownership, that may mean he's on his way out. And that may affect what Cleveland wants to do with Kyrie.

I'm starting to think that they may not want our package because it is too focused on making them good in 2017-18. Bledsoe is a decent PG in his prime, and they'd presumably get a pick and a medium-quality youngling with him. But if they do that trade with us and then Lebron leaves, that would leave them really bare without enough blue-chip assets to rebuild.

Now I'm thinking they will target packages for Kyrie that are focused on younger players and more picks, rather than solid vets to help Lebron continue to contend.

In2ition wrote:

Superbone wrote:I don't care what the Cavs do as long as we stay out of it. (Standard disclaimer: Unless it is as a facilitator in a way that helps #TheTimeline)

Cavs fans are soiling themselves with excitement over the possibility of getting Jackson right now.

Seriously? Why? I guess let them have their momentary excitement.

In2ition wrote:

Superbone wrote:I don't care what the Cavs do as long as we stay out of it. (Standard disclaimer: Unless it is as a facilitator in a way that helps #TheTimeline)

Cavs fans are soiling themselves with excitement over the possibility of getting Jackson right now.

As long as they're dreaming, they might as well soil themselves with excitement over the possibility of getting Durant and Curry.

I think Kyrie is either going to be on the Cavs roster when the season starts, or be traded for a lot less than the fans are expecting. Either way, I'm looking forward to some schadenfreude.

If James is really leaving why wouldn't he want to be traded now, for a protected 2nd rounder or something? The Lakers don't have their pick so no damage there. I'm not a cap expert but having his rights could help them sign another star without dumping too much salary, right? And the Cavs aren't contending this year if they trade Kyrie for youngsters. Maybe they can even convince Irving to stay if James goes, though it doesn't seem likely.

Hermen wrote:If James is really leaving why wouldn't he want to be traded now, for a protected 2nd rounder or something? The Lakers don't have their pick so no damage there. I'm not a cap expert but having his rights could help them sign another star without dumping too much salary, right? And the Cavs aren't contending this year if they trade Kyrie for youngsters. Maybe they can even convince Irving to stay if James goes, though it doesn't seem likely.

The Cavs are not planning on trading Kyrie for youngsters. They want someone that LeBron wants in hopes that it gets them another championship and/or convinces him to stay. Don't focus on whether or not the 2nd part is likely.

The cavs have the highest payroll in the NBA this season, and even without Lebron's salary next season, they will still be 6th or so at well over 100 million. It would be really dumb of them to decide they are in rebuilding mode this year. Let them get back to the finals one more time.

As for trading Kyrie, well, they don't have to. I'm not sure I would, if I was the Cavs. They could bring him back in and hope that he and Love can get the Cavs back to the finals in '19. At the very least, Irving and Love + all those experienced role players should be enough to get a couple of rounds into the playoffs.

They need that playoff revenue to pay the salaries, and they need the winning seasons to keep some kind of fan base. Right now, there really isn't much of a Cavs fan base, just Lebron fans. If they make smart roster moves, they could remain a force in the east for a few more years. It would be very good long term for them to prove they can be good without Lebron.

O_Gardino wrote:The cavs have the highest payroll in the NBA this season, and even without Lebron's salary next season, they will still be 6th or so at well over 100 million. It would be really dumb of them to decide they are in rebuilding mode this year. Let them get back to the finals one more time.

As for trading Kyrie, well, they don't have to. I'm not sure I would, if I was the Cavs. They could bring him back in and hope that he and Love can get the Cavs back to the finals in '19. At the very least, Irving and Love + all those experienced role players should be enough to get a couple of rounds into the playoffs.

They need that playoff revenue to pay the salaries, and they need the winning seasons to keep some kind of fan base. Right now, there really isn't much of a Cavs fan base, just Lebron fans. If they make smart roster moves, they could remain a force in the east for a few more years. It would be very good long term for them to prove they can be good without Lebron.

But other than wins, money and fans, what good will James do for Cleveland this year?

Hermen wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:The cavs have the highest payroll in the NBA this season, and even without Lebron's salary next season, they will still be 6th or so at well over 100 million. It would be really dumb of them to decide they are in rebuilding mode this year. Let them get back to the finals one more time.

As for trading Kyrie, well, they don't have to. I'm not sure I would, if I was the Cavs. They could bring him back in and hope that he and Love can get the Cavs back to the finals in '19. At the very least, Irving and Love + all those experienced role players should be enough to get a couple of rounds into the playoffs.

They need that playoff revenue to pay the salaries, and they need the winning seasons to keep some kind of fan base. Right now, there really isn't much of a Cavs fan base, just Lebron fans. If they make smart roster moves, they could remain a force in the east for a few more years. It would be very good long term for them to prove they can be good without Lebron.

But other than wins, money and fans, what good will James do for Cleveland this year?

Since you put it that way, they should trade him!

at this point, my first wish is that Kyrie is not traded here
my 2nd wish is that he's not traded to the spurs
(unless, of course, they give up too much for him)
he's the best, most experienced coach in the league and could get the best out of kyrie -- in our conference

I'd like to move on from the notion of Kyrie entirely at this point. It will detail our youth movement plans by obtaining a player while giving up assets for a likely 1 year rental.

I'll be curious what team is going to bow to Cleveland's demands for a young superstar on a rookie contract, a veteran that can help them win now, and good draft picks to help them rebuild after LeBron leaves. They are pretty convinced that someone is going to break and give in to their pressure and thirst to add Kyrie to their team. I guess they believe that they have 29 teams from which someone may do that. Let's be serious, the number has to be much smaller than that, based on who has the assets that they are looking for and the need or want for a top level pg. Also, who wants to give up a young superstar on a rookie contract for a disgruntled star with 2 yrs on a contract that has given a list of where they believe that they will be happy.

Jimmy Butler is better than Kyrie and has two years left on his contract and he fetched two so-so prospects and a move from 16 to 7 in the draft. I like Lavine, he's not a star prospect, but I think he'll be good offensively in this league, outside shot he could be like Jason Richardson, an athletic scorer/shooter, but he's also coming off an ACL injury. Don't know what to say about Dunn, he was supposed to be NBA ready, but he was bad last year and my guess is he doesn't amount to anything.

Sacramento got hield, Justin Jackson, and Harry Giles for cousins. None of which are great prospects, except possibly Giles if he ever gets back to his pre injury self.

Indy got Sabonis and oladipo for George. They had the least leverage, but they must really like oladipo.

Long story short, no teams trading stars got market value. It appears they all settled for prospects they held in higher regard than anyone else (Dunn, Hield, Oladipo) Cleveland will probably end up trading Irving for a package headlined by an ok prospect their front office really likes. My guess, Jamal Murray.

I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Split T wrote: I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Honestly, that's a great offer, IMO. It's more than fair value, but in their eyes it's not enough. I really could see Warren blow up this year.

In2ition wrote:

Split T wrote: I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Honestly, that's a great offer, IMO. It's more than fair value, but in their eyes it's not enough. I really could see Warren blow up this year.

As a 3 or a 4?

In2ition wrote:

Split T wrote: I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Honestly, that's a great offer, IMO. It's more than fair value, but in their eyes it's not enough. I really could see Warren blow up this year.

On a team like the Dubs or Spurs that stresses ball movement, Warren would be amazing. Sadly, unless Ulis is the starting PG, we will never utilize him to his fullest offensive potential.

Indy wrote:

In2ition wrote:

Split T wrote: I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Honestly, that's a great offer, IMO. It's more than fair value, but in their eyes it's not enough. I really could see Warren blow up this year.

As a 3 or a 4?

I could see him slide between both positions, as I could see JJ slide between 3 and 2. Obviously, it's going to be difficult, but not impossible, for him to get enough minutes if he's coming off the bench or just sharing time with Jackson. I just think many people, mostly outside of Phx, are sleeping on Warren.

In2ition wrote:

Split T wrote: I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Honestly, that's a great offer, IMO. It's more than fair value, but in their eyes it's not enough. I really could see Warren blow up this year.

I think so too, although I can see why Cleveland might not be too excited by him. If they are trying to build around LeBron, they may look at Warren and say, he doesn't really defend or shoot and isn't a great fit next to LeBron. If they are expecting LeBron to leave, Warren isn't exactly a rising star. Plus, they'd have to pay him next summer.

Maybe Bled to Cleveland, Warren and the Miami 1st to a third team and the third team sends a piece that fits better with LeBron.

Who says no:

Phoenix out: Bled, Warren, Miami 1st
Phoenix in: Kyrie

Cleveland in: Bled, Melo
Cleveland out: Kyrie, Frye

NY out: Melo
NY in: Warren, Frye, Miami 1st

Then Cleveland trades Love and Shumpert to Houston for Gordon and Anderson.

Bledsoe/Gordon/LeBron/Melo/Thompson

Houston would run

Paul/Harden/Ariza/Love/Capela

NY would run

Ntilikina/Hardaway/Warren/Porzingis/Hernangomez

And we'd run

Kyrie/Booker/Jackson/Chriss/Chandler

Split T wrote:

In2ition wrote:

Split T wrote: I'm still happy to take him for bled/Warren/Miami 1st, but that's my final offer.

Honestly, that's a great offer, IMO. It's more than fair value, but in their eyes it's not enough. I really could see Warren blow up this year.

I think so too, although I can see why Cleveland might not be too excited by him. If they are trying to build around LeBron, they may look at Warren and say, he doesn't really defend or shoot and isn't a great fit next to LeBron. If they are expecting LeBron to leave, Warren isn't exactly a rising star. Plus, they'd have to pay him next summer.

Maybe Bled to Cleveland, Warren and the Miami 1st to a third team and the third team sends a piece that fits better with LeBron.

Who says no:

Phoenix out: Bled, Warren, Miami 1st
Phoenix in: Kyrie

Cleveland in: Bled, Melo
Cleveland out: Kyrie, Frye

NY out: Melo
NY in: Warren, Frye, Miami 1st

Then Cleveland trades Love and Shumpert to Houston for Gordon and Anderson.

Bledsoe/Gordon/LeBron/Melo/Thompson

Houston would run

Paul/Harden/Ariza/Love/Capela

NY would run

Ntilikina/Hardaway/Warren/Porzingis/Hernangomez

And we'd run

Kyrie/Booker/Jackson/Chriss/Chandler

OK. Than is a great trade for everyone involved ----except----Cleveland wants young players and picks too. I honestly believe that Kyrie will be on the Cleveland roster at the beginning of the season, just like Keef was still on our roster after asking for a trade.

True, trade only works if Cleveland thinks they can keep LeBron