Phx-Suns.Net

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:58 pm

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:24 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:07 pm

Rubio is what makes Monty's system work like it does

I don't see it that way. Monty's .5 system calls for essentially every player on the court to be a part of facilitating the offense. This isn't a system where one guy dominates the ball and everyone is dependent on him. Each player makes plays for other. We saw it from Ayton, Saric, Cam, Mikal, and of course, Booker.

Rubio contributed to the success as well, don't get me wrong. And I think you need a capable passer at the point. I just wouldn't go as far as to say Rubio "makes the system work."

I'm overstating Rubio's unique ability to make the system work - other pass first PG's could do it but they're few and far between in this league, and it's a pass first style that I like for now as it creates team chemistry while facilitating the development of the younger guys.

We have a pass first guard, he's not perfect but he's cost effective and he's doing the things described above.

Unless it's an obvious move (again, is there an obvious cost-effective upgrade PG that's available?) then what's the point.

Swap 'cost effective ' for 'par-value' .. I don't think he's overpaid, but he's not super cheap like FVV though that's coming to an end as he's UFA.

What does FVV go for this offseason?

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba ... rs-afford/

"How big a raise? That’s where the strategy will come in. The highest they can go is a four-year deal for $36.9 million because they hold VanVleet’s Early Bird rights and can only offer him 1.05 per cent of the league average salary for 2017-18, plus annual raises of eight per cent of the first-year salary.

His deal would start at something in the range of $8.24 million."


He's on $9m now so he won't go for that. He's Rubio value with his stats, so maybe $15m is a sweetheart deal?

That article is about his last free agency.

lol .. it did seem a little off

FVV might get the Brogdon deal.

https://www.raptorshq.com/2020/1/17/210 ... ract-value

"I basically already have, somewhere between Kyle’s $48 million for four years, and Rozier’s $58 million for three".

So between $12m and $19m .. not exactly precise, and it's definitely nearer the top end so maybe $15m gets it done as mentioned.



https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba/new ... vllntcx2dd

This one's a little more recent and indicates >$20m. The first article above says that's too much so maybe $17 or $18m gets it done for Toronto which is right on Rubio money.

I would not do a Rubio / FVV swap at any of those prices.

20M or more for sure.

I'd take FVV over Rubio any day, even if FVV is making $20 million/yr. My cutoff would likely be $22 mil/yr.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:35 pm

I'd take FVV over Rubio any day, even if FVV is making $20 million/yr. My cutoff would likely be $22 mil/yr.

$20mill!!!

I suppose because that way you can proceed to keep posting about our overpaid PG and how we could upgrade the team by trading him for cap space...

Sorry, FVV is young, but tremendous experience/success, has had a ridiculous assist to turnover ration is entire career, has turned into a high percentage/volume 3-point shooter, and plays the passing lanes well. He is worth the money.

Y’all get way too attached to people and see them for way better than they actually are.

Dear Rubio was average. He’s just so much better than what we’ve had since Nash that he looks like a unanimous HOFer.

There are a lot better PGs out there.

I’d pay FVV 20 in a heartbeat to come here.

I’m not dumping Rubio for the sake of getting out of his salary. But if we have an opportunity to upgrade I’d take it in a second.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:32 pm

Y’all get way too attached to people and see them for way better than they actually are.

Dear Rubio was average. He’s just so much better than what we’ve had since Nash that he looks like a unanimous HOFer.

There are a lot better PGs out there.

I’d pay FVV 20 in a heartbeat to come here.

I’m not dumping Rubio for the sake of getting out of his salary. But if we have an opportunity to upgrade I’d take it in a second.

Well, when you have a better solution, come back and talk to us. We ain't getting FVV.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:32 pm

Y’all get way too attached to people and see them for way better than they actually are.

Dear Rubio was average. He’s just so much better than what we’ve had since Nash that he looks like a unanimous HOFer.

There are a lot better PGs out there.

I’d pay FVV 20 in a heartbeat to come here.

I’m not dumping Rubio for the sake of getting out of his salary. But if we have an opportunity to upgrade I’d take it in a second.

Suns 2013-2014, Dragic and Bledsoe.

Don't mess with chemistry the painful lesson there, if it really needs spelling out, unless it's a nailed on upgrade and FVV isn't.

----------Rubio ------FVV
TS%------.535--------.553
Ast/36 ---10.2---------6.7
WS--------4.9---------5.8 (4.9 of 34 wins and 39 losses is better than 5.8 of 53 and 19)
PER-------16.5--------16.3
RPM------2.44-------1.92
BPM-------0.8---------2.7

And that ignores FVV's projected higher salary as well .. so you're nuts, iow, if you pull the trigger on this.

FVV is the guy the Knicks overpay for who then turns into Howard Eisley.

And it's not even two days old but I'll rehash it anyway:

We need Richaun Holmes back!

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:26 am

We need Richaun Holmes back!

He's had a great season though his per36 and advanced stats are no different to his year in Phx, actually they're a little worse.

And no doubt there are some outliers in that list but there's enough MVP type players to lend it some credibility (anything to ram home the point that you just don't trade Rubio for FVV).

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:14 am

FVV is the guy the Knicks overpay for who then turns into Howard Eisley.

I'd bet this is right - those advanced stats I posted all rely in part on team performance and Toronto is the 2nd best team in the league.

Rubio's doing it on a losing team stocked with rookies and 2nd years that's only getting better.

We have a really nice core and shouldn't mess with it. Add to it, yes. Make the team better, yes. But there's no need to take a huge step backward (dumping Rubio) in the hope of taking a step forward (signing some mysterious better player or PG). I still haven't seen a plausible plan involving Rubio that actually makes our team better. The one thing it's guaranteed to do is piss off Booker and make him wonder whether Draymond was right with his comments on TNT.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:25 am

We have a really nice core and shouldn't mess with it. Add to it, yes. Make the team better, yes. But there's no need to take a huge step backward (dumping Rubio) in the hope of taking a step forward (signing some mysterious better player or PG). I still haven't seen a plausible plan involving Rubio that actually makes our team better. The one thing it's guaranteed to do is piss off Booker and make him wonder whether Draymond was right with his comments on TNT.

Ditching Rubio would be such a McD kind of thing to do. Penny wise and pound foolish -- if even that.