2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion

[TOO]

If D Fox from Kentucky had a reliable jumper, I think he would be above Ball for me. His ability to push in transition and his 1st step are unreal.

[pickle]

I may be the glass half full guy here, but I'm quite high on Bender. He's 19, he's physically mismatched, but his lateral quickness and passing IQ are well documented, and honestly those are things that will shine through with repetition. He's considered a good shooter, so he'll never be an Andre Roberson or Andrew Bogut (not exact defensive profile, but more in the sense that these guys don't contribute much on the offensive end and cannot help space the floor). If we have the choice of two guys who are not surefire all stars (and by extension future hall of famers), then for the sake of team building I prefer the one that can adapt his game to any incoming star, rather than one who needs a team built around him to maximize his talents.

I don't want to go for shock value, and I really don't follow NCAA closely so this is all based on reading rather than even eye test, but there have been sweet shooting big men that haven't amounted to much that went through the NBA. In the extreme case, you would have a Bargnani... In closer to home case, there's Frye. FWIW, I would never trade Bender for Frye, even if both are 22 yrs old right now.

[In2ition]

Ok, there is a question that Markkanen can't play defense, pass or put the ball on the floor. I can tell you, that he is much better off the dribble than Bender and he'll attack the rim too. He can finish with either hand around the rim, and he has some post moves. One of the things I've been disappointed with Bender is that he doesn't seem to take it to the whole off the dribble and a lot of times he goes weak too. I've chalked it up to him needing to improve his strength, Markkanen might not have the lateral quickness, but he's no slouch. I'm not down on Bender though and can't wait to see him come back.

[Shabazz]

I'd rather pair booker with a jack of all trades like player(Jackson) than another ball in their hands ISO scorer(Tatum). Especially when our other young wing is a scorer(Warren). If Tatum was a significantly better prospect then I could see going best available player, but I'd argue that not only is Jackson a better fit, but he's also a better player. Fultz is the only guy I take over Jackson right now.

I generally agree with this. The fact that Jackson is a full year older than Fultz, Ball and Tatum gives me pause, though.

[pickle]

One year... doesn't bother me.

I'm not saying Markkanen is a bad prospect. I guess philosophically speaking, I prefer guys who build their games on defense, who then grow their offensive repertoire. I don't know Bender's game very well as I didn't have time to watch Suns games much earlier in the season, and he's obviously not playing now so I don't get a good sense for what he is. Just generally speaking not willing to swap Bender for Markkanen given what I've read/seen thus far.

[Mori Chu]

Ball is having a great tournament so far. Anybody reconsidering Ball vs Fultz because of it? Or docking Fultz any points for being unable to lead his team to the NCAA tournament?

[JCSunsfan]

Ball is having a great tournament so far. Anybody reconsidering Ball vs Fultz because of it? Or docking Fultz any points for being unable to lead his team to the NCAA tournament?

Shouldn't a potential NBA superstar be able to get his team an invite? That would be an interesting study. How many top NBA players were on teams that failed to get to the tournament? James Harden did it his sophomore year. I do not think that roster was anything special.

[O_Gardino]

Ball is having a great tournament so far. Anybody reconsidering Ball vs Fultz because of it? Or docking Fultz any points for being unable to lead his team to the NCAA tournament?

Shouldn't a potential NBA superstar be able to get his team an invite? That would be an interesting study. How many top NBA players were on teams that failed to get to the tournament?

Agree. That would be very interesting data.

I don't know college hoops very well, but everything I read says that UCLA is beating good defensive teams. Teams that are supposed to shut people down (according to the writers) are just getting carved up by UCLA. It's pretty impressive when you play so fast to have so few turnovers and shoot such a high percentage.

[In2ition]

Lorenzo Romar is a good recruiter, but I haven't seen him out coach anyone. I wouldn't put it all on Fultz, but I've also been a Ball guy since before he was in college.

There is a possibility that Michael Porter jr decides to go elsewhere now.

[Split T]

Ball is having a great tournament so far. Anybody reconsidering Ball vs Fultz because of it? Or docking Fultz any points for being unable to lead his team to the NCAA tournament?

Shouldn't a potential NBA superstar be able to get his team an invite? That would be an interesting study. How many top NBA players were on teams that failed to get to the tournament? James Harden did it his sophomore year. I do not think that roster was anything special.

James Harden missed the tournament as a freshman. Ben Simmons didn't make the tournament, but we haven't seen what he will be in the nba yet. Damian Lillard didn't ever make the tournament. Washington's problem is their defense was terrible. You could swap any player in the country with Fultz and I still think they miss the tournament, so I wouldn't hold that too much against Fultz.

[Superbone]

Basketball is a team game. One player can't do it himself if his teammates are lousy.

[JCSunsfan]

Basketball is a team game. One player can't do it himself if his teammates are lousy.

Steph Curry, James Harden, and Kahwai Leonard all carried very lackluster rosters to the NCAA tournament.

[In2ition]

Basketball is a team game. One player can't do it himself if his teammates are lousy.

Steph Curry, James Harden, and Kahwai Leonard all carried very lackluster rosters to the NCAA tournament.

Did Curry and Leonard do it as freshmen? Is it easier or harder to make the tournament out of a mid-major or smaller school? Also, SDSU had a decent roster when Leonard played, IIRC.

[Split T]

Ya, SDSU was really good and Leonard did not carry those teams. And the ASU team that made the tournament with Harden wasn't bad. Jeff Pendergraph was really good and has bounced around the nba as well. Curry's run was very impressive, i'll give you that one. However, just because he played for a small school doesn't mean his teammates sucked. None of them were nba prospects, but that doesn't mean they weren't solid college players.

[Split T]

Basketball is a team game. One player can't do it himself if his teammates are lousy.

Steph Curry, James Harden, and Kahwai Leonard all carried very lackluster rosters to the NCAA tournament.

Did Curry and Leonard do it as freshmen? Is it easier or harder to make the tournament out of a mid-major or smaller school? Also, SDSU had a decent roster when Leonard played, IIRC.

Curry and Leonard both made the tournaments every year in college, (3 for curry, 2 for leonard) Curry did it out of the Southern conference which I don't think can even be considered mid-major. It's low major and they dominated in conference play. SDSU went 34-3 during Kawhi's sophomore year and got a 2 seed in the tournament. He was very good, but his team was very good as well.

[djy2j]

Yo, Caleb Swannigan is really good. Anyone see his line tonight? 20/12/7 with three 3-pointers. That's excellent passing for a big man. Like Alan Williams he's a little short but has an insane 7' 4" wingspan. Unlike Alan Williams he is not a load and is very swift on his feet. Has legit moves around the basket.

That's my guy. His work ethic is insane. He may be close to Kevin Garnett level of work outs. Works out after every game. He has a great motor and has incredibly advanced footwork for his age in the post. Incredibly coachable.

His biggest flaw is his lack of athleticism. He keeps proving me wrong with everything else so that might be something he can improve at the next level. His defense is also suspect but he concedes points alot to avoid foul trouble. He classified for college a year early so he's a year younger than you'd think. Wish he'd stay another year but his family is dirt poor so he's gone with a 2nd round guarantee.

[Split T]

Yo, Caleb Swannigan is really good. Anyone see his line tonight? 20/12/7 with three 3-pointers. That's excellent passing for a big man. Like Alan Williams he's a little short but has an insane 7' 4" wingspan. Unlike Alan Williams he is not a load and is very swift on his feet. Has legit moves around the basket.

That's my guy. His work ethic is insane. He may be close to Kevin Garnett level of work outs. Works out after every game. He has a great motor and has incredibly advanced footwork for his age in the post. Incredibly coachable.

His biggest flaw is his lack of athleticism. He keeps proving me wrong with everything else so that might be something he can improve at the next level. His defense is also suspect but he concedes points alot to avoid foul trouble. He classified for college a year early so he's a year younger than you'd think. Wish he'd stay another year but his family is dirt poor so he's gone with a 2nd round guarantee.

I see him right now as an Enes Kanter like nba player. He'll have a place, most likely as 2nd unit post scorer. Don't know anything about his work ethic though, so maybe he could improve his defense enough to be something special.

[carey]

Ball is having a great tournament so far. Anybody reconsidering Ball vs Fultz because of it? Or docking Fultz any points for being unable to lead his team to the NCAA tournament?

No. Still Fultz all the way for me. I would still go Ball @ 2. Tatum/Jackson are really close at 3/4 for me.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Lorenzo Romar is simply that bad of a coach. I'm bummed that finally UW fired him.

[Shabazz]

Ball is having a great tournament so far. Anybody reconsidering Ball vs Fultz because of it? Or docking Fultz any points for being unable to lead his team to the NCAA tournament?

No. Still Fultz all the way for me. I would still go Ball @ 2. Tatum/Jackson are really close at 3/4 for me.

Yup - Fultz is still my clear #1. I think I'm torn between Ball/Jackson for 2 and Tatum not far behind at 4, acknowledging that he's the worst fit with our current personnel.