Phx-Suns.Net

Sorry, but Irving isn't that much better than Thomas.

In fact, Thomas was markedly better last year.

The only real advantage I would give him is that he's 3 years younger.

Boy, I sure wouldn't want to be the team to pay the max to IT.

Superbone wrote:Boy, I sure wouldn't want to be the team to pay the max to IT.

I probably wouldn't either but all that guy does is prove people wrong. I actually love the deal for Cleveland - think Crowder will be a huge help for them next year and getting that pick is huge. Nice job by their new GM. I think it's as good as they could have hoped.

I don't see y Ainge gave up the Nets pick after not willing to use those picks for Jimmy or PG .

AbeVroman wrote:

Superbone wrote:Boy, I sure wouldn't want to be the team to pay the max to IT.

I probably wouldn't either but all that guy does is prove people wrong. I actually love the deal for Cleveland - think Crowder will be a huge help for them next year and getting that pick is huge. Nice job by their new GM. I think it's as good as they could have hoped.

Agreed. And I am especially glad the Suns aren't a part of the deal. Hopefully Bledsoe is not too bummed out about staying in the valley.

bajanguy008 wrote:I don't see y Ainge gave up the Nets pick after not willing to use those picks for Jimmy or PG .

Agreed. Seems odd. I'm one who thinks Kyrie is a lot better than Thomas, but upgrade there is a lot less than the upgrade to one of those guys.

Maybe Boston really loves Tatum.

Bonkers trade.

Well, there ya go. We can wrap up this thread.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2042 ... iah-thomas

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(I just completed the countdown.)

The Bobster wrote:Sorry, but Irving isn't that much better than Thomas.

In fact, Thomas was markedly better last year.

The only real advantage I would give him is that he's 3 years younger.

And under contract for an extra year and not dealing with a potential hip issue.

jonh wrote:

The Bobster wrote:

Superbone wrote:https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/900121788876824576 That would be a killing for the Celtics. Swap tiny Thomas for Kyrie?

Depending on what those picks are.

I really like this move for Boston. That will be a solid team next year.

Cleveland must really be in a tough spot if they are willing to trade one of their core players to what appears to be their toughest competition in the east.

Cleveland wanted win now vets and a blue chip prospect for Kyrie. Boston was uniquely positioned to be the only real team that could offer that. I wonder if this offer was there for awhile and Cleveland held out, hoping we'd up our offer to bled and Jackson. Would seem to fit with gambo saying we wouldn't get Kyrie without Jackson and that there were better offers from other teams. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew the Celtics offer.

Wow. Huge trade. The best two teams in the East swap point guards.

I think Boston really wins this deal. I like Kyrie a lot more than IT if I'm building a team, as I have said before. The pick will be the prime asset given out by Boston here, but they have lots of picks and young players and can afford to give it up. Crowder is not an asset I value very highly; rotation player but nothing too special. Boston has been eagerly throwing him in trades for a year or more now.

I really think this haul is fool's gold for Cleveland. IT is injured and will demand a max contract in a year. Crowder is meh. The pick is basically all they get, and they are unlikely to get a player with that pick who is better than Kyrie. I can't imagine that Lebron is very psyched about this deal.

Does this foreshadow that they will also trade Lebron? I know the general expectation is that he would play out the coming season and then potentially leave. But would Lebron really want to play with Isaiah Thomas? I think IT is going to drive him crazy with all of his ballhogging. Either that, or if Lebron runs the offense, IT will become a mostly useless spot-up shooter, which isn't his strength. I just hate the fit of Lebron + IT for the Cavs. I don't think it works at all.

Well, I'm glad that's over.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Does this foreshadow that they will also trade Lebron? I know the general expectation is that he would play out the coming season and then potentially leave. But would Lebron really want to play with Isaiah Thomas? I think IT is going to drive him crazy with all of his ballhogging. Either that, or if Lebron runs the offense, IT will become a mostly useless spot-up shooter, which isn't his strength. I just hate the fit of Lebron + IT for the Cavs. I don't think it works at all.

Ammm so I'm guessing you're not a fan of IT

I don't agree though Mori , if he was going to Warriors yes he would have to adjust his style of play. Even this upcoming season playing with Hayward his usage might have been down a lil as they finally have someone else who can initiate offense and I could see Stevens wanting them to keep up some of the motion stuff they used when we he was hurt instead of him doing all that dribbling. So back to Cavs who basically let their two stars just pound the rock, as usual were like one of the highest if not highest ISO teams in the league with their You turn - My turn "lack of plays" they run. I don't see it being any different as not like Bron n Kyrie used to create much for each other, just go stand in the corner while the other guy goes one on one or pick n roll which is basically what IT just come from doing

https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/900171373175160832 This still seems to be the general consensus, that we weren't willing to "Cave" to the Cavs demands

bajanguy008 wrote:https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/900171373175160832 This still seems to be the general consensus, that we weren't willing to "Cave" to the Cavs demands

They can be frustrated all they want and pound sand. I'm glad McD didn't cave.

should have included josh jackson in that package. what do you have to lose?

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Wow. Huge trade. The best two teams in the East swap point guards.

I think Boston really wins this deal. I like Kyrie a lot more than IT if I'm building a team, as I have said before. The pick will be the prime asset given out by Boston here, but they have lots of picks and young players and can afford to give it up. Crowder is not an asset I value very highly; rotation player but nothing too special. Boston has been eagerly throwing him in trades for a year or more now.

I really think this haul is fool's gold for Cleveland. IT is injured and will demand a max contract in a year. Crowder is meh. The pick is basically all they get, and they are unlikely to get a player with that pick who is better than Kyrie. I can't imagine that Lebron is very psyched about this deal.

Does this foreshadow that they will also trade Lebron? I know the general expectation is that he would play out the coming season and then potentially leave. But would Lebron really want to play with Isaiah Thomas? I think IT is going to drive him crazy with all of his ballhogging. Either that, or if Lebron runs the offense, IT will become a mostly useless spot-up shooter, which isn't his strength. I just hate the fit of Lebron + IT for the Cavs. I don't think it works at all.

Kyrie and IT are essentially the same player, IT was a little better offensively, Kyrie defensively. Although Kyrie is 4 years younger. IT had the same usage rate as Kyrie before last year, so I don't think he'll have a problem scaling back his ball dominance. He hogged it in Boston because they didn't have anyone else who could create a shot. Crowder at least gives Cleveland someone who plays D and isn't terrible offensively. He shot 39% from 3 last year. And the pick should be good. I think Cleveland did better than I thought they would. They can give it one last shot with LeBron and then start the rebuild next year with the Brooklyn pick in what should be a good draft.

We'll be interesting to see what they do with IT, can't imagine them maxing him out if LeBron leaves, but maybe.

I like the move for Boston too. Kyrie/Hayward/Horford is nice and can beat the Cavs. If Tatum turns out good and they use the Lakers pick wisely, they've got a real shot at a title when the warriors cool off.

bajanguy008 wrote:https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/900171373175160832 This still seems to be the general consensus, that we weren't willing to "Cave" to the Cavs demands

This should make Jackson feel good about being here.

The Bobster wrote:Sorry, but Irving isn't that much better than Thomas.

In fact, Thomas was markedly better last year.

The only real advantage I would give him is that he's 3 years younger.

Agreed. That unprotected Nets pick is going to be at or very near the top of an amazing draft. Obviously there are no guarantees — a draft whose top five includes LeBron, Melo, Bosh and Wade can still yield a Milicic with the second pick — but if I were calling the shots in Boston, I would not have made this deal. At least, not without getting some protection on that pick.

So, the Celtics passed on Fultz and Ball, not because of Thomas, but because they liked Tatum (and/or maybe Jackson) even more?

They passed on Butler and Hayward for keeping the Net's pick, but then gave it away for Kirye?

Thomas and Kirye are very similar players on a basic level, I can't see how any team actually upgrade his chances, specially Cleveland. They got a premier pick out of it, but I can't see how they manage to keep Isaiah AND Lebron a year from now, and only one won't cut it. They got a rental Thomas, so that pick is the only core piece in the trade for them. I see the flair out of getting Thomas over Bledsoe, and the Net's pick over Miami's is a true win, but still doesn't look like a clearly superior package, specially if Chriss develops into a player superior to Crowder. Pretty sure he at the very least, adjusts better to upcoming rebuilding.

A shortsighted deal for Cleveland, a lateral move at a big cost for Boston.