Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:58 pm
Kind of. His year after next is only partially guaranteed at 2M.
And Holiday's Qualifying Offer is 5.8M and his Cap Hold is 12M.
Page 27 of 31
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:59 pm
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:02 pm
And Holiday's Qualifying Offer is 5.8M and his Cap Hold is 12M.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:06 pm
I liked Holiday in the draft too. He shot really well for UCLA. I thought he was a Darren Collison clone
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:12 pm
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pm
I think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:24 pm
Age.
IIRC, he's also kind of a dickhead, so maybe teams weren't eager to keep him around their locker room.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pm
Did we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:33 pm
He passed up a $10M offer from the Lakers to retire and become a pastor 2 summers ago. Then he signed a 10-day with the Lakers this year, but was never extended beyond that. He's probably washed.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:24 pmAge.
IIRC, he's also kind of a dickhead, so maybe teams weren't eager to keep him around their locker room.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:34 pm
Did we need to improve our top 8? I thought we were trying to shore up depth. Who in our top 8 would you be comfortable moving for a different top 8 piece?Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:37 pm
Improving our top-8 would have meant getting someone better than McGee or Payne. Depending on the night, I think we improved our 9th spot (Craig vs Shamet). Most importantly, I think we brought in 2 guys who can log minutes in the regular season and spot minutes in the playoffs, which will reduce the strain on those top-8. Craig also gives us lineup versatility we didn't previously have, unless you really liked Ish at the 5.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:40 pm
I'm assuming you're saying Gordon would've improved our "top 8" and I can't really disagree with that. But I don't think there's a huge gap between what Gordon and Holiday will bring to the Suns in their roles.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:49 pm
You don't typically go more than 8 deep in the playoffs. So you would hope your top 8 this year are clearly better than your top 8 last year.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:34 pmDid we need to improve our top 8? I thought we were trying to shore up depth. Who in our top 8 would you be comfortable moving for a different top 8 piece?Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Last year, despite a deep finals run, and chris breaking his arm, and getting covid, and booker breaking his face, we still played only 8 guys 93.4% of our minutes. And that was without a back up to Ayton.
We have the same top 7 for sure as last year, and #8 is probably a toss up between McGee and Craig, depending on match up. So we have a better back up to Ayton, and that is it. Maybe that is enough. I am not sure.
As for who in our top 8 I would like to ship out to improve... I don't think there is a good option there. Maybe a Payne/McGee and pick package (with whomever else not in our top 8 to make salaries work) could have improved our back court considering how underwhelming ShamPayne has been this year. But it sounds like there wasn't a deal to be had for Gordon (or Sarver didn't want to deal with the salary).
I am hoping our internal development of Mikal and Cam, along with a solid backup (or 2) to Ayton, puts us over the top.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:49 pm
That’s a bit of a stretch.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:40 pmI'm assuming you're saying Gordon would've improved our "top 8" and I can't really disagree with that. But I don't think there's a huge gap between what Gordon and Holiday will bring to the Suns in their roles.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:50 pm
I think Bazz said the same things I said but more concisely. 
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:51 pm
Yeah, there is a reason one was available for cash considerations and one was costing players and a first round pick.Shabazz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:49 pmThat’s a bit of a stretch.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:40 pmI'm assuming you're saying Gordon would've improved our "top 8" and I can't really disagree with that. But I don't think there's a huge gap between what Gordon and Holiday will bring to the Suns in their roles.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:52 pm
Kind of funny.. He's definitley not an insider, just a Suns fan on Twitter.
Coincidently, I've recruited him to join our fantasy league next season. I've told him about our little group here in the corner of the Internet, but I guess some people aren't as into the long form these days.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:54 pm
We officially have our Finals team now plus some strong additions in McGee, Biyombo, Holiday, and to a lesser extent, Shamet.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:55 pm
"In their roles" is the key point here. Gordon is obviously the more proven player, but I would've still been a bit concerned about how he fit into the rotation as it would've affected the rotation hierarchy much more than Holiday will.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:51 pmYeah, there is a reason one was available for cash considerations and one was costing players and a first round pick.Shabazz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:49 pmThat’s a bit of a stretch.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:40 pmI'm assuming you're saying Gordon would've improved our "top 8" and I can't really disagree with that. But I don't think there's a huge gap between what Gordon and Holiday will bring to the Suns in their roles.Indy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:30 pmDid we improve our top 8 guys? I would argue we didn't.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:23 pmI think James Jones did really well today.
Maybe they preferred Thad Young to Torrey Craig as I'm sure the deal with the Pacers has been on the table for a while, but the Suns were patient and their choice was clear once Toronto came into the picture.
I actually like Craig more than Young for this Suns team. Obviously Craig should quickly acclimate to his role and the locker room, but the Suns have plenty of big man depth now so we shouldn't see him forced into playing minutes at Center like he was in the previous post season. Craig has also been having a much better season than Young so far. Some of Young's decline has been due to his situation in San Antonio, but I don't think it's a guarantee that he suddenly turns it on and he's the Bulls version of himself again. I don't have that worry at all with Craig because he's been getting solid minutes all season in Indiana.
Aaron Holiday for essentially nothing is a great acquisition, and hopefully it means we never have to see Elfrid Payton again. He's small, but young and tough. He's similar to Jevon Carter in a lot of ways, but I don't think I'll be terrified of him touching the ball like I was with Carter because he can reliably pass and dribble. At a minimum, the Holiday brothers facing off will make for an interesting subplot in the Finals rematch against the Bucks.
A highly under discussed part of these deals so far is that the Suns maintained cap flexibility. I was very keen on bringing in Eric Gordon, but his salary would've created some issues down the line and could've cost the Suns the chance to keep someone like Cam Johnson in a worst case scenario. Again, bravo Champ, the Suns aren't in need of a blockbuster deal, but still some pretty savvy moves by him today.
I think we got some insurance for injuries to our top 8, though (Paul/Payne with Holiday, and Cam/Jae with Torrey).
I'm also not convinced the Suns are done making moves, and that would've been much more difficult had they acquired Gordon.
Re: 2022 Trade Deadline Talk
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:41 pm
I'm really happy with our deadline moves. Holiday seems like a solid bench guard who we already liked on draft day, and at a minimum will be better than the mostly dreadful Payton. Craig is a great bench forward who we know fits on this team because we already had him on our Finals run, and he's great Crowder insurance, which I think we needed given how Jae has been a bit off and on lately.
I don't mind that we missed on Gordon. He was making a lot of money, and I don't know if I like the idea of taking on that much salary for your, what, 8th man? 9th? Nice player, but I think we can get by without giving up assets or giving him that much of our cap. And Thad Young is kind of an unknown for me. I think I'd rather have Craig than Young all things considered.
I don't mind that we missed on Gordon. He was making a lot of money, and I don't know if I like the idea of taking on that much salary for your, what, 8th man? 9th? Nice player, but I think we can get by without giving up assets or giving him that much of our cap. And Thad Young is kind of an unknown for me. I think I'd rather have Craig than Young all things considered.