Phx-Suns.Net

jonh wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:57 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Assuming we’re going to draft Ayton, Len has no role here. I wish him success with his new team.

I really do think he will be a serviceable starter over the next few years. He will be another addition to the pile of Suns players over the past few years that have gone on to bigger and better things outside of the desert--I really wish we could talk him into backing up Ayton for a reasonable deal, but I think Len is ready to move on.

Side note--I am ok not taking Doncic, but the need for a legitimate facilitator on this team is real. I think there is a lot of big-man talent that isnt being utilized because there isn't someone that knows how to run an offense.

That whole pot is spot on.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:06 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:27 am

jonh wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:57 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Assuming we’re going to draft Ayton, Len has no role here. I wish him success with his new team.

I really do think he will be a serviceable starter over the next few years. He will be another addition to the pile of Suns players over the past few years that have gone on to bigger and better things outside of the desert--I really wish we could talk him into backing up Ayton for a reasonable deal, but I think Len is ready to move on.

Side note--I am ok not taking Doncic, but the need for a legitimate facilitator on this team is real. I think there is a lot of big-man talent that isnt being utilized because there isn't someone that knows how to run an offense.

Completely agreed. Let's say the Suns are fine with resigning Payton or even using Knight as our PG. If we just replace Tyson Chandler with rookie Ayton, does that get us more than 5 extra wins? We still don't have anyone that is a starting level facilitator on the floor, or a backup one that can run the show for another 15-20 minutes a night.

I am not advocating for us to do everything we can to try and squeeze out 40 wins next year (even though that is the goal that McD said he has), but if we were to try and get there, I think Doncic provides more ability to win games for the team than Ayton does.

Well, if this team only makes one change this summer I will be greatly disappointed. There are several avenues to pursue for changes at PG if they use the 1st pick on Ayton.

Agreed. But it seems the Front Office is putting a lot of stock in "let's see what we have with a new coach and our #1 pick" instead of making wholesale changes. Really, we need starting caliber players at 3 of our 5 positions. And I say three only because I am only 50% on JJ and TJ as starting caliber players on a winning team. I think JJ can get there if he continues the leap he made in the last quarter of the season compared to the AWFUL first half. And TJ could be if we had a really good distributor and he either adds a 3 to his game, or we run out shooters at the other 4 positions.

And that doesn't even address who plays the other half of the game from the bench.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:49 am

jonh wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:57 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Assuming we’re going to draft Ayton, Len has no role here. I wish him success with his new team.

I really do think he will be a serviceable starter over the next few years. He will be another addition to the pile of Suns players over the past few years that have gone on to bigger and better things outside of the desert--I really wish we could talk him into backing up Ayton for a reasonable deal, but I think Len is ready to move on.

Side note--I am ok not taking Doncic, but the need for a legitimate facilitator on this team is real. I think there is a lot of big-man talent that isnt being utilized because there isn't someone that knows how to run an offense.

That whole pot is spot on.

Agreed. Can we just admit that we are not good at player development anymore? It seems like the guys that do make that leap (really only Booker), do it because THEY do it. If it was more of a team driven thing, we wouldn't be so down on nearly every draft pick we have taken over the past 5 years.

You just know that a better org like the Spurs or Warriors or Rockets would have found a way to get something out of some of these young guys. I picture Len on the Spurs, and by now he'd be a valuable piece for them, probably their starting C. I picture Ulis on Houston and he's running their offense off the bench and working on his 3-point shot. It just feels like we don't have the people in place to develop our young guys consistently. But I do want to give them some slack given that a lot of them are still super young, like Chriss and Bender who are both still 20 I believe. It takes time.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:49 am

jonh wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:57 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Assuming we’re going to draft Ayton, Len has no role here. I wish him success with his new team.

I really do think he will be a serviceable starter over the next few years. He will be another addition to the pile of Suns players over the past few years that have gone on to bigger and better things outside of the desert--I really wish we could talk him into backing up Ayton for a reasonable deal, but I think Len is ready to move on.

Side note--I am ok not taking Doncic, but the need for a legitimate facilitator on this team is real. I think there is a lot of big-man talent that isnt being utilized because there isn't someone that knows how to run an offense.

That whole pot is spot on.

Agreed. Can we just admit that we are not good at player development anymore? It seems like the guys that do make that leap (really only Booker), do it because THEY do it. If it was more of a team driven thing, we wouldn't be so down on nearly every draft pick we have taken over the past 5 years.

I can admit that for the recent past but that regime is over. Who knows what Kokoskov and his new staff can accomplish?

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:49 am

jonh wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:57 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Assuming we’re going to draft Ayton, Len has no role here. I wish him success with his new team.

I really do think he will be a serviceable starter over the next few years. He will be another addition to the pile of Suns players over the past few years that have gone on to bigger and better things outside of the desert--I really wish we could talk him into backing up Ayton for a reasonable deal, but I think Len is ready to move on.

Side note--I am ok not taking Doncic, but the need for a legitimate facilitator on this team is real. I think there is a lot of big-man talent that isnt being utilized because there isn't someone that knows how to run an offense.

That whole pot is spot on.

Agreed. Can we just admit that we are not good at player development anymore? It seems like the guys that do make that leap (really only Booker), do it because THEY do it. If it was more of a team driven thing, we wouldn't be so down on nearly every draft pick we have taken over the past 5 years.

This is what really pisses me off about McDonough stlll having a job. Why in the world are we still in desparate need of three positions after he has had 5 years to build this team? I am tired of all the excuses that get made up to support him. He has sucked as a GM.

This draft should come down to filling our biggest need. Well as everyone suggests we have three biggest needs, WTF. This is the main reason for the debate between Doncic and Ayton. We desparately need and upgrade at both Center as well as a distributor. It is in the eye of the beholder as to which is the most important. To have a successful draft McDonough really needs to figure out a way to get both, we need both. I do not know if it is even possible but to shoot for anything less is just plain stupid. Hell he has tried and failed to get every free agent he has reportdely went after why should I believe he is capable of accomplishing this task.

If I am Robert Sarver McDonough is being told everything is on the table with the exception of Booker for you to obtain both Ayton and Doncic in this draft. That includes Josh Jackson (anyone else on our roster it might take) and all the upcoming future first round picks we have and have received from Miami and anyone else.

I like Josh Jackson and would love to keep him but if it is a choice between him and Doncic, I take Doncic.

This nonsense of picking up someone as a playmaker or big in free agency, trade or later in the draft that is near as good as either Ayton or Donic is just that, nonsense.

The time is now do your freaking job Ryan.

If we only have three players left on our roster after the draft and they are Ayton, Donic and Booker, I will be thrilled.

Some questions:

1. After the promise that JJ showed in 2018 -- a more dominant performance than any Suns rookie since Richard Dumas (including Amare) -- why are so many folks willing to throw him under the bus? I see him as a Pippen with less reach but more mobility...and future ability to shut down small guards.

2. Why are we overvaluing draft picks? Sure, Ayton and Doncic look fantastic but so did Wiggins and Fultz. Avoid the psychological temptation and make clear headed decisions. Like not throwing in JJ into lopsided trades.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:47 pm

Some questions:

1. After the promise that JJ showed in 2018 -- a more dominant performance than any Suns rookie since Richard Dumas (including Amare) -- why are so many folks willing to throw him under the bus? I see him as a Pippen with less reach but more mobility...and future ability to shut down small guards.

2. Why are we overvaluing draft picks? Sure, Ayton and Doncic look fantastic but so did Wiggins and Fultz. Avoid the psychological temptation and make clear headed decisions. Like not throwing in JJ into lopsided trades.

I like Josh jackson, but I continue to think his shooting mechanics are going to prevent him from ever being a star. He’ll be a good role player but if we have a chance at Doncic for him I would do it.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:59 pm

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:47 pm

Some questions:

1. After the promise that JJ showed in 2018 -- a more dominant performance than any Suns rookie since Richard Dumas (including Amare) -- why are so many folks willing to throw him under the bus? I see him as a Pippen with less reach but more mobility...and future ability to shut down small guards.

2. Why are we overvaluing draft picks? Sure, Ayton and Doncic look fantastic but so did Wiggins and Fultz. Avoid the psychological temptation and make clear headed decisions. Like not throwing in JJ into lopsided trades.

I like Josh jackson, but I continue to think his shooting mechanics are going to prevent him from ever being a star. He’ll be a good role player but if we have a chance at Doncic for him I would do it.

The preferred option is to keep Josh Jackson, I like him as much as anyone.

However, we need a legit leader (Engine) in the worst way. I do not see Josh being that guy. I don't see Booker being that guy. This opportunity rarely presents itself. I do not know if Josh + draft picks and the rest of our roster is enough to entice another team to give us their pick so that we can draft Doncic. I just think that if the opportunity presents itself, we cannot pass it up.

JustWinBaby wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:09 pm

If I am Robert Sarver McDonough is being told everything is on the table with the exception of Booker for you to obtain both Ayton and Doncic in this draft. That includes Josh Jackson (anyone else on our roster it might take) and all the upcoming future first round picks we have and have received from Miami and anyone else.

If I’m Robert Sarver I butt out and let the professionals do their jobs. No matter what you think of our GM, Sarver pulling rank and making the decisions is a bad idea.

Cap wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:24 pm

JustWinBaby wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:09 pm

If I am Robert Sarver McDonough is being told everything is on the table with the exception of Booker for you to obtain both Ayton and Doncic in this draft. That includes Josh Jackson (anyone else on our roster it might take) and all the upcoming future first round picks we have and have received from Miami and anyone else.

If I’m Robert Sarver I butt out and let the professionals do their jobs. No matter what you think of our GM, Sarver pulling rank and making the decisions is a bad idea.

Any trade is a bad trade if you send too many assets out. You can justify an overpay, but it doesn’t make it a good trade, just shows how desperate or cornered you were.

And after years of real suffering, we are not so desperate or cornered.

JustWinBaby wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:09 pm

This is what really pisses me off about McDonough stlll having a job. Why in the world are we still in desparate need of three positions after he has had 5 years to build this team? I am tired of all the excuses that get made up to support him. He has sucked as a GM.

I actually think this offseason really justifies why we have to stick with McD for the next few years--as much as Sarver might say he wants to bring in experienced, talented personnel, the reputation of micro-managing and low-balling (deserved or not) deters high quality GMs just as much as it does coaches. If nothing else, McD has improved as a GM (IMO) over the past few years; I dont want to have to go through the growing pains of a new GM again.

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1004126268357570566

I'm done. I can't watch another Doncic highlight reel. They just anger me now.

Hmmm. Would Doncic be our PG?

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:42 pm

I'm done. I can't watch another Doncic highlight reel. They just anger me now.

What does that mean, please get to the point. Is he that good that you are going to be mad when we do not draft him #1?

I have a feeling he is all that and I am pissed that folks on this board are worried about giving up too much to get him if we do draft Ayton first.

Virtually all of the great teams have had a core of three great players and they have acquired them in different ways. We may have one of them now with Booker and have a chance to get potentially two more on draft night, we just have to go for broke and do whatever it might take to get both Ayton and Doncic. Then you hear from some Suns Fans worried about giving up too much, WTF. I woud be more worried about overpaying someone in free agency. Recent history says that is one of the things that McDonough is good at. Overpaying in free agency. That is if anyone is willing to play for him.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:42 pm

I'm done. I can't watch another Doncic highlight reel. They just anger me now.

I've basically stopped keeping tabs on the whole situation. I had a little hope with the coach hire but that doesn't seem like it will matter. Seems like a foregone conclusion.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:42 pm

I'm done. I can't watch another Doncic highlight reel. They just anger me now.

I cant wait to see him as a starter for Memphis while they make another playoff run.

Have a little hope guys, i dont think that our FO is so blind to dismiss Doncic in this debate... Kokoskov wont allow such behaviour...

Maybe we can pry away Fox from the Kings when they take Doncic second.