Phx-Suns.Net

Been over this many times I know. Looking at this from an outside looking in war perspective, how can Israel possibly just stop now? What would they have accomplished? Has Hamas/Palestinians have agreed to stop their war against Israel if they do? No, they have vowed revenge and to continue to wage war until Israel is wiped off the map.

If you call Israel blood thirsty, then you can say Hamas/Palestinians are easily just as blood thirsty if not a whole lot more. You might say Israel has killed more. Yes, they have. Hamas would love to kill more if they possessed the weapons.

For Israel to stop their war, Hamas/Palestinians would have to agree to a permanent truce.

For Hamas to stop the war, Israel would have to be wiped off the map.

Who is the blood thirty ones again?

I'd rather dump the politics section rather than losing people because of it. Nothing gets accomplished here. In2 versus everybody else isn't changing anybody's mind. Opinions that insult others about this conflict isn't helping anybody. Some of this stuff is too personal to some here and outsiders commenting on it isn't helping. Like this subject.

This particular thread has been overheated and has felt less productive than others. Fwiw I don't post in any thread with the goal of changing minds. I am interested in hearing what others have to say, and interested in sharing information I've seen with others. But I am not really hoping to have somebody who strongly disagrees with me read my post and say, "He's right, I have changed my mind." That's a losing battle.

I would be okay with stopping posting in this thread if others think we should just drop it. The overall Israel / Palestine / Gaza topic is still a relevant news story and it would be nice to be able to discuss it in a non-heated way if possible. I am willing to commit to trying to tone down my own posts and making them more matter-of-fact and less partisan and emotional.

It’s a super relevant news story and a super touchy subject with the entire planet. The US seems to be divided in half on the subject. We shouldn’t talk about it because someone's feelings might get hurt? I’ve been posting here I’m sure too much for decades now. Someone’s feelings always eventually get hurt here and we cool it for awhile. You need thick skin to talk politics.

I appreciate both side’s arguments on this topic. I am interested in hearing all sides. I have kind of waffled on this subject based on all the info I have seen posted. I don’t blame Israel for what they are doing. If this was happening to the US, the conflict would have been over many decades ago imo. I am skeptical about how careful Israel has been in trying to avoid hitting civilians. Once again the fog of war makes that determination difficult.

This place has been sort of therapy for me. I don’t really talk politics anywhere else. I read a lot of news from different sources and I get to vent here and exchange views. Other chat places are cesspools of hate and anger. They aren’t discussions , they are sound bites. I went to FOX and was kicked out in two posts. Nothing bad at all, just not pro GOP. No dissenting voices allowed at all. Talking politics with friends is better because it’s more honest and respectful. We have long discussions that last years. Like this topic.

We don’t always agree and sometimes in the heat of the moment we say things we might regret that is hurtful to someone else. I have done it several times. I come down hard on religion sometimes and didn’t really realize I was insulting other people that are religious until they pointed it out to me. It’s a balancing act. I have strong views and how do you express those views without insulting someone that has the opposite views? I guess it comes down to the way you say it. Saying “they could do a much better job at avoiding civilian casualties” sounds a lot better than “they are blood thirsty”. “I don’t share your views on religion” sounds better than “religion is a bunch of BS”.

I would be sad if the politics folder went away again. I know it means nothing in the real world. I enjoy you guy’s company and sharing what I consider important news of the day with you guys. Yes, we mostly all just agree on everything except In2ition. He’s experiencing a different reality than the rest of us.

Not they've bombed a school, killing dozens of innocent people.

Hooray! Israel freed 4 of its hostages from Hamas.

Uh oh; they may have killed hundreds of Palestinians to get to those 4. Awkward.





A reminder of what Palestinian cities and homes look like after the Israeli military is done with them:

I wonder why people defect and join Hamas? Couldn't be because their entire bloodlines are wiped from the earth, along with dreams, memories and their homes. I mean, why would anyone think of Israel as the enemy after they obliterate their entire sense of being? They should thank Israel, find some rubble and start a new life as Pro Israeli Palestinians.

UN Security Council votes to accept Israel / Palestine cease-fire agreement. Close to making some progress?

Doesn’t matter if the Security Council approves it. Just matters if Haniyeh and Bibi approve it.

I just feel for the citizens on both sides…getting caught up because the leadership of each country sucks

https://nypost.com/2024/06/11/world-new ... acrifices/

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar believes Palestinian deaths are ‘necessary sacrifices’: leaked messages

Hamas’ top official in Gaza, who helped mastermind the Oct. 7 terrorist attack, coldly admitted he sees the deaths of Palestinian civilians as “necessary sacrifices” to keep its war against Israel raging, according to a report citing disturbing leaked messages.

Yahya Sinwar lauded his efforts in stalling cease-fire talks while the Jewish state faces mounting international backlash over the Palestinian death toll, which exceeds 37,000, according to messages from Sinwar obtained by the Wall Street Journal.

“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” Sinwar said in a message to Hamas officials meeting with Qatari and Egyptian negotiators.

The Palestinian people continue to be pawns between both sides, slaughtered in masses.

Sinwar should allow himself to be killed as well as a necessary sacrifice.

I am pretty sure Hamas doesn’t give a rats ass about Palestinians and just considers them chum for their war with Israel. This is kind of a war between Israel and Iran. Hamas is basically a subsidiary of Iran and the Palestinians are their pawns. I liken it to Trump and Maga. Trump is Iran. The maga cult is the Palestinians. Both being led by terrorists down a dark path.

Yes I agree that Hamas doesn’t care…it’s pretty sickening.

UN investigation returns damning conclusions about Israeli government / military behavior toward Palestinians in Gaza.

Mori, could you at least try to appear to see both sides of this conflict? I went to the UN site instead of Al Jazeera, which is a pro Arab pro Palestinian news site. All you will ever get there is anti US, anti Israel “news”. I have been reading that site for many years. They do come up with some very good articles but, generally not friendly to us. It’s a little funny since the only reason oil rich Qatar hasn’t been swallowed up by it’s bigger stronger neighbors is because not far out of Doha, where Al Jazeera is based there are two big US military bases paid for by the Qatar government.

I went to the actual UN site instead of an X post from someone pointing to Al Jazeera and they do say what you said. You and they forgot to put in the part where they say Israel AND Palestinian armed groups committed war crimes.

The article is long so I just posted a blurb in it about the side you forgot.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/11 ... since%2013
Palestinian armed groups and Israeli authorities have both committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the attack on 7 October and the subsequent military operations, according to a new report by a UN independent human rights body.

The Commission further noted that in relation to the attack of 7 October in Israel, members of the military wings of Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups, as well as Palestinian civilians who were directly participating in the hostilities, deliberately killed, injured, mistreated, took hostages and committed sexual and gender-based against civilians, including Israeli citizens and foreign nationals.

Such acts were also committed against members of the Israeli Security Forces (ISF), including soldiers considered hors de combat – such as injured soldiers.

“These actions constitute war crimes and violations and abuses of international humanitarian law and international human rights law,” it said.

The Commission also identified patterns indicative of sexual violence in several locations and concluded that Israeli women were disproportionally subjected to these crimes.

Biden administration imposes sanctions on Israeli group blocking humanitarian aid into Gaza
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/14/politics ... index.html

US Navy faces its most intense combat since World War II against Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi rebels
https://apnews.com/article/us-navy-yeme ... cf819913fb
“This is the most sustained combat that the U.S. Navy has seen since World War II — easily, no question,” said Bryan Clark, a former Navy submariner and a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. “We’re sort of on the verge of the Houthis being able to mount the kinds of attacks that the U.S. can’t stop every time, and then we will start to see substantial damage. … If you let it fester, the Houthis are going to get to be a much more capable, competent, experienced force.”

“We currently have pretty high confidence that not only is Iran providing financial support, but they’re providing intelligence support,” Miguez said. “We know for a fact the Houthis have also gotten training to target maritime shipping and target U.S. warships.”