Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:13 am

He had a year and a half left in him. He broke down his 2nd year in NY. 2011 could’ve been fun with Amaré though

Which is my point if money is no object.

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:09 am

I'm whelmed.

It's not your fault. The Suns are in a tight spot and I have no significant idea how to rework the roster, so I commend the ideas.

I just don't think that team can get out of the West.

I agree, I'm not convinced that team gets out of the west. Is there someone better than Turner available at the 5 that we are overlooking? I just feel he isn't much of an upgrade on Ayton when all's said and done.

Part of the point is you’re also saving 10 million that you can now use to add other players with exceptions. And Turner was a lot better than Ayton last year. He was more efficient, shoots 3s, and was a much better rim protector. Only thing Ayton had on him was rebounding.

I have a feeling you guys are going to be disappointed with the team if you underwhelmed by my example. Hard to see us doing better.

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:20 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:09 am

I'm whelmed.

It's not your fault. The Suns are in a tight spot and I have no significant idea how to rework the roster, so I commend the ideas.

I just don't think that team can get out of the West.

I agree, I'm not convinced that team gets out of the west. Is there someone better than Turner available at the 5 that we are overlooking? I just feel he isn't much of an upgrade on Ayton when all's said and done.

Part of the point is you’re also saving 10 million that you can now use to add other players with exceptions. And Turner was a lot better than Ayton last year. He was more efficient, shoots 3s, and was a much better rim protector. Only thing Ayton had on him was rebounding.

I have a feeling you guys are going to be disappointed with the team if you underwhelmed by my example. Hard to see us doing better.

That's fair. The cost saving is definitely important to add other players with exceptions as you say. Rebounding is a concern if it's lower than Ayton but I guess you could make up for some of that in other areas.

I don't think it's a bad team and given the limited assets we have available, I think it's probably the sort of team we are likely to see on the floor come the new season. I guess I'm just living in hope that we pull a Laker-esque lopsided trade out of the hat that lands us with another legit star or some quality role players. Unlikely, I know

How would you guys feel if the move was Ayton for Simons? Waive and stretch CP3, use MLE on Reid(or Lopez if he’ll take it).

Simons/Booker/KD/Reid

Would use the BAE or TPE to get the 5th starter and fill the bench with the other plus vet min deals.

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:33 am

How would you guys feel if the move was Ayton for Simons? Waive and stretch CP3, use MLE on Reid(or Lopez if he’ll take it).

Simons/Booker/KD/Reid

Would use the BAE or TPE to get the 5th starter and fill the bench with the other plus vet min deals.

They say never exchange big for small but...maybe? I'm not sure how well Book would coexist with him.

I don’t see any issue offensively. Simons is an elite shooter. On ball or off ball. Defense might be rough

The objectively correct take on moving Amare is, he had exactly one more great year left in him; he wasn't worth maxing for 5 years, 3.5 of which he spent injured and gimpy, just to get that 1 last good year. We were right to move him. But, we fucked it up by spending that cap space on a bunch of bantha fodder in Warrick, Childress, and fucking H**o T******u, who all completely sucked mightily and set us back. But but, just because we blew it on the new guys doesn't mean we should have wasted a max contract on a gimpy kneed Amare who quickly became washed.

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:20 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:09 am

I'm whelmed.

It's not your fault. The Suns are in a tight spot and I have no significant idea how to rework the roster, so I commend the ideas.

I just don't think that team can get out of the West.

I agree, I'm not convinced that team gets out of the west. Is there someone better than Turner available at the 5 that we are overlooking? I just feel he isn't much of an upgrade on Ayton when all's said and done.

Part of the point is you’re also saving 10 million that you can now use to add other players with exceptions. And Turner was a lot better than Ayton last year. He was more efficient, shoots 3s, and was a much better rim protector. Only thing Ayton had on him was rebounding.

I have a feeling you guys are going to be disappointed with the team if you underwhelmed by my example. Hard to see us doing better.

Not this argument again. If you're stretching CP3, you can use all of those same exceptions without trading Ayton.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:26 am

The objectively correct take on moving Amare is, he had exactly one more great year left in him; he wasn't worth maxing for 5 years, 3.5 of which he spent injured and gimpy, just to get that 1 last good year. We were right to move him. But, we fucked it up by spending that cap space on a bunch of bantha fodder in Warrick, Childress, and fucking H**o T******u, who all completely sucked mightily and set us back. But but, just because we blew it on the new guys doesn't mean we should have wasted a max contract on a gimpy kneed Amare who quickly became washed.

Objectively correct? Nah. Run back the WCF team. You don't get involved in sports to not go for a championship.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:54 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:20 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:09 am

I'm whelmed.

It's not your fault. The Suns are in a tight spot and I have no significant idea how to rework the roster, so I commend the ideas.

I just don't think that team can get out of the West.

I agree, I'm not convinced that team gets out of the west. Is there someone better than Turner available at the 5 that we are overlooking? I just feel he isn't much of an upgrade on Ayton when all's said and done.

Part of the point is you’re also saving 10 million that you can now use to add other players with exceptions. And Turner was a lot better than Ayton last year. He was more efficient, shoots 3s, and was a much better rim protector. Only thing Ayton had on him was rebounding.

I have a feeling you guys are going to be disappointed with the team if you underwhelmed by my example. Hard to see us doing better.

Not this argument again. If you're stretching CP3, you can use all of those same exceptions without trading Ayton.

Not if you’re also adding 5 million in salary in a Shamet/Payne trade

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:00 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:26 am

The objectively correct take on moving Amare is, he had exactly one more great year left in him; he wasn't worth maxing for 5 years, 3.5 of which he spent injured and gimpy, just to get that 1 last good year. We were right to move him. But, we fucked it up by spending that cap space on a bunch of bantha fodder in Warrick, Childress, and fucking H**o T******u, who all completely sucked mightily and set us back. But but, just because we blew it on the new guys doesn't mean we should have wasted a max contract on a gimpy kneed Amare who quickly became washed.

Objectively correct? Nah. Run back the WCF team. You don't get involved in sports to not go for a championship.

You’re crazy guy

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:05 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:54 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:20 am

SunsSince92 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:16 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:09 am

I'm whelmed.

It's not your fault. The Suns are in a tight spot and I have no significant idea how to rework the roster, so I commend the ideas.

I just don't think that team can get out of the West.

I agree, I'm not convinced that team gets out of the west. Is there someone better than Turner available at the 5 that we are overlooking? I just feel he isn't much of an upgrade on Ayton when all's said and done.

Part of the point is you’re also saving 10 million that you can now use to add other players with exceptions. And Turner was a lot better than Ayton last year. He was more efficient, shoots 3s, and was a much better rim protector. Only thing Ayton had on him was rebounding.

I have a feeling you guys are going to be disappointed with the team if you underwhelmed by my example. Hard to see us doing better.

Not this argument again. If you're stretching CP3, you can use all of those same exceptions without trading Ayton.

Not if you’re also adding 5 million in salary in a Shamet/Payne trade

Split T wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:50 am

Ok, hear me out:

Waive and stretch CP3
Trade Ayton for Turner and draft rights to Maxwell Lewis(pick 32)
Trade Shamet/Payne/Pick Swap to Atlanta for Deandre Hunter

Give 8 mil of MLE to Divencenzo
Give 4 mil to Shake Milton
Give BAE to Seth Curry
Use TPE to sign and trade for Jalen McDaniels for a protected 2nd
Vet min sign JaMychal Green, Jock Landale, Biz, Saban Lee, and Josh Okogie.

Divencenzo, Curry, Lee
Booker, Milton, Okogie
Hunter, McDaniels, Lewis
Durant, Green, Ish
Turner, Landale, Biyombo

Keeping Ayton:

Durant: 47,649,433
Booker: 36,016,200
Ayton: 32,459,438
Paul: 3,160,000
MLE (Divencenzo and Milton): 12,404,425
Curry: 4,516,000
McDaniels: 4,975,371
Hunter: 20,089,286
Green: 1,800,000
Landale: 1,800,000
Biyombo: 1,800,000
Lee: 1,800,000
Okogie: 1,800,000
Rookie min: 1,000,000

Total: $171,270,153

That's right around where the first apron should be (and uses increased estimates for the MLE and BAE). If it's a little lower, you'll have lower MLE/BAE numbers and can replace Lee and/or Biyombo with rookie min deals.

EDIT: I accidentally left out Ish. But you could go with 14 players or more rookie mins.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:20 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:00 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:26 am

The objectively correct take on moving Amare is, he had exactly one more great year left in him; he wasn't worth maxing for 5 years, 3.5 of which he spent injured and gimpy, just to get that 1 last good year. We were right to move him. But, we fucked it up by spending that cap space on a bunch of bantha fodder in Warrick, Childress, and fucking H**o T******u, who all completely sucked mightily and set us back. But but, just because we blew it on the new guys doesn't mean we should have wasted a max contract on a gimpy kneed Amare who quickly became washed.

Objectively correct? Nah. Run back the WCF team. You don't get involved in sports to not go for a championship.

You’re crazy guy

Says the guy who once told me it's not your money. Don't worry about it!

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:00 am

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:26 am

The objectively correct take on moving Amare is, he had exactly one more great year left in him; he wasn't worth maxing for 5 years, 3.5 of which he spent injured and gimpy, just to get that 1 last good year. We were right to move him. But, we fucked it up by spending that cap space on a bunch of bantha fodder in Warrick, Childress, and fucking H**o T******u, who all completely sucked mightily and set us back. But but, just because we blew it on the new guys doesn't mean we should have wasted a max contract on a gimpy kneed Amare who quickly became washed.

Objectively correct? Nah. Run back the WCF team. You don't get involved in sports to not go for a championship.

I agree with you. They should have maxed him out. Perhaps his knees might have lasted a little longer with our training staff, also. We could have had one or two more chances at the title. Nash was still playing at an All-Star level those next two years (his last two in Phoenix).

Gambo says the Mavericks will not give up the #10 pick for Ayton.

Of course they won't, taking Ayton would be doing the Suns a favor.

I'm currently holding Bruce Brown's beer.

TOO wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:34 pm

Of course they won't, taking Ayton would be doing the Suns a favor.

As much as I ended up despising McDonough's assets-oriented approach, I think that the Suns need to be smarter about trades than taking other teams' pu pu platters in return for the likes of an Ayton. There's still a lot of folks who think that he could be rehabilitated -- and I'm one of them. You just need one of them to bite, otherwise, no deal.

Same for Chris Paul. If chatter is to be believed, a lot of teams want him. If you want to trade one player for a bunch of role players, it should be CP3. Not Ayton. Need some kind of star power or a high draft pick for him.

And...if it's just the Suns putting up smoke when there's no real fire, then keep him as an expiring for next year and trade him based on that status. I think that their trade leverage increases after the waive deadline for this year. Gotta play hardball.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:30 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:34 pm

Of course they won't, taking Ayton would be doing the Suns a favor.

As much as I ended up despising McDonough's assets-oriented approach, I think that the Suns need to be smarter about trades than taking other teams' pu pu platters in return for the likes of an Ayton. There's still a lot of folks who think that he could be rehabilitated -- and I'm one of them. You just need one of them to bite, otherwise, no deal.

Same for Chris Paul. If chatter is to be believed, a lot of teams want him. If you want to trade one player for a bunch of role players, it should be CP3. Not Ayton. Need some kind of star power or a high draft pick for him.

The Suns have handcuffed themselves though, when you've got extremely overpriced players in a league where salary matters just as much if not more than talent, your opportunity to maximize a return is very limited. Unless you're the Lakers.