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Cap wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:40 pm

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Having Marty beg is an interesting way to sell subscriptions.

I'd subscribe if it meant we had a good offseason...!

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:30 pm

I still like Tyler Johnson and think he'll work better with a full training camp under a more traditional coach/style. I'm not opposed to moving him in the right deal or waiting until the deadline but I think he's at least serviceable even in a backup role.

Melton and Okobo are both so young I'd hate to give up on either. I like Okobo more but it seems Jones has his own ideas for PG.

I really don't understand why people are so willing to ditch Tyler Johnson for dubious upgrades. For a clear upgrade on good financial terms (e.g. Dinwiddie)? Yes. But he's done well enough that I'd rather have him than someone new who is not clearly better.

Then again, I am also against selling Josh Jackson (at the bottom) and think it's ridiculous to talk about how little talent he has -- I still think he's potentially among the best players from that draft and an Iguodala in the making -- he just needs to get his ass kicked and grow up. I'd keep him, stash him low in the rotation and send him to D-league when his head is not on straight, and give him a chance to get his act together and force the Suns to trade Oubre or Bridges. 9mm is a lot of money but compared to the players that we're talking about picking up for the same money, it's not much.

Years of losing have really screwed with our heads.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:40 pm

Years of losing have really screwed with our heads.

I truly have when we need to cling onto a projection of what we want a player to become, ignoring the fact that for two years said player has been beyond terrible.

Josh Jackson has addition by substraction written all over him. His production on the court puts him along the likes of former infamous Suns such as Brandon Knight, Shannon Brown or Marcus Banks. He just damages his team when he plays on what feels like 75% of the games.

I get not wanting to end up wasting a #4, but two years is enough to call a bust a bust. Can he improve? Surely. Is it worth our time and money? Can't say it is. Time to move on with no regrets, even if he performs well for another team.

Btw, I think linking Jackson to Iggy after what we have seen this time is selling Iguodala incredibly short, particularly when you take in mind intangibles and off the court demeanor.

All in my opinion, of couse.

We won't get anything for Jackson right now, so there isn't much motivation to trade him. And I don't think he's toxic enough that we should just waive him outright.

I'd like to see what the new coaching staff can do with Jackson before discarding him.

I feel like a very basic chatbot could take my place in these offseason threads. Every year, we have a disappointing draft pick who half the board wants to dump, and the other half wants to see what the new coaching staff makes of him.

There's just no point in retaining Oubre / Bridges / Jackson. You can get an immature 3rd string guy to mature in the D league as an undrafted player or in the second round for 8 million cheaper than Jackson. And part of shifting culture and expectations is seeing different faces in the locker room.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:16 am

We won't get anything for Jackson right now, so there isn't much motivation to trade him. And I don't think he's toxic enough that we should just waive him outright.

We are paying him 7M this a year to be one of the bottom 5 players in the league.

There are probably 25 guys in the league that make less than him (proven players, not guys that are cheap because they are on rookie deals) that would help our team more than Josh Jackson.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:33 am

I feel like a very basic chatbot could take my place in these offseason threads. Every year, we have a disappointing draft pick who half the board wants to dump, and the other half wants to see what the new coaching staff makes of him.

There's just no point in retaining Oubre / Bridges / Jackson. You can get an immature 3rd string guy to mature in the D league as an undrafted player or in the second round for 8 million cheaper than Jackson. And part of shifting culture and expectations is seeing different faces in the locker room.

Has anyone on this board said that about Oubre or Bridges? Ever? Some have said that it might not be worth paying Oubre +15M to stay, or that using two first rounders for Bridges was too much. But nobody has said they aren't worth retaining.

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:57 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:33 am

I feel like a very basic chatbot could take my place in these offseason threads. Every year, we have a disappointing draft pick who half the board wants to dump, and the other half wants to see what the new coaching staff makes of him.

There's just no point in retaining Oubre / Bridges / Jackson. You can get an immature 3rd string guy to mature in the D league as an undrafted player or in the second round for 8 million cheaper than Jackson. And part of shifting culture and expectations is seeing different faces in the locker room.

Has anyone on this board said that about Oubre or Bridges? Ever? Some have said that it might not be worth paying Oubre +15M to stay, or that using two first rounders for Bridges was too much. But nobody has said they aren't worth retaining.

Think he’s saying there’s no need to have all three of them at the same position.

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:00 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:57 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:33 am

I feel like a very basic chatbot could take my place in these offseason threads. Every year, we have a disappointing draft pick who half the board wants to dump, and the other half wants to see what the new coaching staff makes of him.

There's just no point in retaining Oubre / Bridges / Jackson. You can get an immature 3rd string guy to mature in the D league as an undrafted player or in the second round for 8 million cheaper than Jackson. And part of shifting culture and expectations is seeing different faces in the locker room.

Has anyone on this board said that about Oubre or Bridges? Ever? Some have said that it might not be worth paying Oubre +15M to stay, or that using two first rounders for Bridges was too much. But nobody has said they aren't worth retaining.

Think he’s saying there’s no need to have all three of them at the same position.

Right. I meant all three. I should have use + instead of /.

I'm ok with retaining Jackson if the team doesn't need the space to sign someone but I also don't really care if they decide to move on. The problem to me isn't necessarily how bad he's been (though I acknowledge he's been statistically one of the worst young players in the league) rather it's that there's not going to be any playing time for him this season unless we run out Oubre at PF for most of his minutes. The reason he played so much after we acquired Oubre was due to Warren's injury. He's clearly our 4th best SF at this point. Keeping him is kind of whatever, isn't it?

Now I may change my tune if we fail to re-sign Oubre or if we trade Warren.

Hey guys, long time no see.

Wanna talk about Brandon Clarke? Have you heard of Brandon Clarke?

Brandon Clarke!

OE32 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:22 am

Hey guys, long time no see.

Wanna talk about Brandon Clarke? Have you heard of Brandon Clarke?

Brandon Clarke!

Who?

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:07 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:00 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:57 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:33 am

I feel like a very basic chatbot could take my place in these offseason threads. Every year, we have a disappointing draft pick who half the board wants to dump, and the other half wants to see what the new coaching staff makes of him.

There's just no point in retaining Oubre / Bridges / Jackson. You can get an immature 3rd string guy to mature in the D league as an undrafted player or in the second round for 8 million cheaper than Jackson. And part of shifting culture and expectations is seeing different faces in the locker room.

Has anyone on this board said that about Oubre or Bridges? Ever? Some have said that it might not be worth paying Oubre +15M to stay, or that using two first rounders for Bridges was too much. But nobody has said they aren't worth retaining.

Think he’s saying there’s no need to have all three of them at the same position.

Right. I meant all three. I should have use + instead of /.

got it. my bad, reading is not my thing

To me the case for keeping Jackson is twofold:

- He's (sort of) an asset, and we won't get much value for that asset right now. Perhaps we can wait and throw him into a trade or wait until some team wants to give us something for him later.

- He might still be playable in a different role. Maybe he could be a backup ballhandler who would run our offense when our starting PG is out, rather than as an SF. Or maybe this summer he hits the gym really hard and works on his game and comes into next season with some improved skills that make him better.

I do agree that we don't have a huge role for him right now, and that at SF I'd rather see Oubre and Bridges as our two SFs in the rotation.

The only question about JJ right now is, do we pick up his fourth-year option or not?

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 am

The only question about JJ right now is, do we pick up his fourth-year option or not?

When do we make that decision?

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:04 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 am

The only question about JJ right now is, do we pick up his fourth-year option or not?

When do we make that decision?

Start of the regular season I think, so we have four months of shopping him before we decide. Maybe somebody will take him off our hands and we won’t have to decide.

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:13 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:04 am

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 am

The only question about JJ right now is, do we pick up his fourth-year option or not?

When do we make that decision?

Start of the regular season I think, so we have four months of shopping him before we decide. Maybe somebody will take him off our hands and we won’t have to decide.

Why would anyone decide it makes sense to pay him over 8M/year when you don't have to do that?

Cap wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 am

The only question about JJ right now is, do we pick up his fourth-year option or not?

I don’t even want his third year, you want to torture us with a fourth!