Phx-Suns.Net

So you see DSJ as being a Bledsoe like player?

carey wrote:So you see DSJ as being a Bledsoe like player?

Ya, I think he may be a bit more explosive vertically and has a little more potential as a shooter, but he's questionable defensively.

I can't get behind Fox for this team. He seems like he's going to be a work in progress for some time and I have a hard time getting excited about a PG prospect who can't shoot OR pass. He's obviously fast as hell and a great athlete, but he doesn't have Westbrook-ian size to compensate for his weaknesses. I like the Conley comp, but it took Conley a long time to get where he is.

I'm also wary of adding too many rookies that need development time to our core. When you're trying to develop too many players at once there's diminishing returns on all of them, both because they can't get the necessary time and also because of the quality of their teammates.

I get what your saying 'bazz, and I agree somewhat. It's kind of scary to continue to take guys that they know will take some time to develop into better than average players to win.

Although in Fox's defense, he is 6'3" to 6'4", so he's not as small as Conley. He's also a decent and willing passer, so to say he can't pass isn't true. He's nowhere near the level of Ball, so it skews what we see in players, but I can't think of more than a handful of players since Kidd that were at that level. I think he's a closer to a taller Conley or left handed Wall. Seriously, he's nearly the same height as Westbrook, but a more willing passer and he's fast as hell.

A lot of smart people think Fox is going to be a good passer in the NBA. Of course, he can learn to shoot. I'm not sold, but I'm also not an expert. I just play one on the internet.

In 15 years, when you look back at the names expected to go in the lottery this draft, I'd be very surprised if you ranked them by career and Markkanen didn't finish in the top 5. He may not have the highest ceiling but he has a very high floor and with his high BBIQ, work ethic, mobility, ability to shoot from all 3 levels and great hands, he has a better chance of approaching his ceiling than most of the other lottery names. He isn't an exciting pick and the workouts might reveal an even better choice but whoever drafts him isn't likely to regret it years down the road.

EternalChampion wrote:In 15 years, when you look back at the names expected to go in the lottery this draft, I'd be very surprised if you ranked them by career and Markkanen didn't finish in the top 5. He may not have the highest ceiling but he has a very high floor and with his high BBIQ, work ethic, mobility, ability to shoot from all 3 levels and great hands, he has a better chance of approaching his ceiling than most of the other lottery names. He isn't an exciting pick and the workouts might reveal an even better choice but whoever drafts him isn't likely to regret it years down the road.

Welcome to the board. I think Markkanen will be a solid pro. I worry about his fit here with Chriss and Bender around. For Markkanen to get minutes one of the 3 will need to play a lot at C.

EternalChampion wrote:In 15 years, when you look back at the names expected to go in the lottery this draft, I'd be very surprised if you ranked them by career and Markkanen didn't finish in the top 5. He may not have the highest ceiling but he has a very high floor and with his high BBIQ, work ethic, mobility, ability to shoot from all 3 levels and great hands, he has a better chance of approaching his ceiling than most of the other lottery names. He isn't an exciting pick and the workouts might reveal an even better choice but whoever drafts him isn't likely to regret it years down the road.

I agree with this. He might be the best shooter in the class, and as a 7 footer, that's pretty rare. I wouldn't be opposed to picking him if it meant getting another pick or a trade that makes sense and moves the Suns down in the draft.

carey wrote:

EternalChampion wrote:In 15 years, when you look back at the names expected to go in the lottery this draft, I'd be very surprised if you ranked them by career and Markkanen didn't finish in the top 5. He may not have the highest ceiling but he has a very high floor and with his high BBIQ, work ethic, mobility, ability to shoot from all 3 levels and great hands, he has a better chance of approaching his ceiling than most of the other lottery names. He isn't an exciting pick and the workouts might reveal an even better choice but whoever drafts him isn't likely to regret it years down the road.

Welcome to the board. I think Markkanen will be a solid pro. I worry about his fit here with Chriss and Bender around. For Markkanen to get minutes one of the 3 will need to play a lot at C.

Yes, they might all have to interchange at 4 & 5 over the years.

carey wrote:

EternalChampion wrote:In 15 years, when you look back at the names expected to go in the lottery this draft, I'd be very surprised if you ranked them by career and Markkanen didn't finish in the top 5. He may not have the highest ceiling but he has a very high floor and with his high BBIQ, work ethic, mobility, ability to shoot from all 3 levels and great hands, he has a better chance of approaching his ceiling than most of the other lottery names. He isn't an exciting pick and the workouts might reveal an even better choice but whoever drafts him isn't likely to regret it years down the road.

Welcome to the board. I think Markkanen will be a solid pro. I worry about his fit here with Chriss and Bender around. For Markkanen to get minutes one of the 3 will need to play a lot at C.

I don't know if the 3 of them could play a lot of minutes together but it would be interesting to see. Lauri will fill out some and should be able to guard on the blocks but he won't be a monster at the rim, that's for sure. But both Bender and Chriss bring shot blocking skills to the table and all 3 of them should be able to guard inside and out and should also be able to switch effectively. Right now, that's a real weakness for Markkanen, just like it is for Booker. Speaking of that, I've watched both of them just hold their position when they need to be rotating to the man with the ball so they have that in common also.

My issue is that when I see Bender and Chriss, I see a combo not unlike what the Raptors had in Bosh and Villanueva some 10 years ago. Both were PFs with some different skillsets and the Raptors tried to make them fit at the 3/4, 4/5 and just couldn't do it. And now, because of that redundancy, we may be hesitant to add someone who may be a better fit with one of them.

I also don't know why some are so down on Fox. I see a beast PG, as quick/fast as Wall with a much better jumper (at that age) and shooting touch. He needs to add some weight and get better at shooting off the bounce, but I think he's a stud.

Split T wrote:Here is how I envision the top 8 producing 5 years from now:

Fultz - 24/5/7 with 1.5 steals on .48/.38/.78 shooting splits
Jackson - 18/8/5 with 2 steals and 1 block on .50/.35/.70 shooting splits
Ball - 15/7/10 with 1.5 steals on .52/.40/.80 shooting splits
Fox - 20/4/7 with 2 steals on .46/.33/.78 shooting splits
Isaac - 16/9/2 with 2 steals and 2 blocks on .50/.38/.82 shooting splits
Tatum - 22/7/2.5 with 1 steal and 1 block on .48/.36/.82 shooting splits
Monk - 22/3/3 with 1 steal on .47/.40/.85 shooting splits
Smith - 20/5/5 with 1.5 steals on .46/.35/.78 shooting splits

You don't think a single player in the top 8 will bust? I hope this isn't where the rest of the board is at mentally.

I'm also very skeptical of Jackson. Athletic, high-energy, defense-first small forwards taken in the lotto seem to bust every other year. Justise Winslow, Stanley Johnson, MKG, Corey Brewer, Marvin Williams, Aaron Gordon... JJ could break the mold, but the mold he fits into is bust, as far as I can tell. If I'm wrong, though, I'm very wrong.

Assuming Fultz and Ball are gone:

1. De'Aaron Fox
2. Zach Collins
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Malik Monk
5. Frank Ntilikina

Zach Collins reminds me of Chris Dudley.

Agreed on Jackson. I'm not big on taking wings so early in the draft unless they're transcendent, can't-miss prospects. Jackson's profile and hype seems to fall in line with the list of players you mentioned. And I think SFs are mostly a dime a dozen. A legit SG, a franchise PG, a dominant PF/C are much harder to come by.

OE32 wrote:

Split T wrote:Here is how I envision the top 8 producing 5 years from now:

Fultz - 24/5/7 with 1.5 steals on .48/.38/.78 shooting splits
Jackson - 18/8/5 with 2 steals and 1 block on .50/.35/.70 shooting splits
Ball - 15/7/10 with 1.5 steals on .52/.40/.80 shooting splits
Fox - 20/4/7 with 2 steals on .46/.33/.78 shooting splits
Isaac - 16/9/2 with 2 steals and 2 blocks on .50/.38/.82 shooting splits
Tatum - 22/7/2.5 with 1 steal and 1 block on .48/.36/.82 shooting splits
Monk - 22/3/3 with 1 steal on .47/.40/.85 shooting splits
Smith - 20/5/5 with 1.5 steals on .46/.35/.78 shooting splits

You don't think a single player in the top 8 will bust? I hope this isn't where the rest of the board is at mentally.

I'm also very skeptical of Jackson. Athletic, high-energy, defense-first small forwards taken in the lotto seem to bust every other year. Justise Winslow, Stanley Johnson, MKG, Corey Brewer, Marvin Williams, Aaron Gordon... JJ could break the mold, but the mold he fits into is bust, as far as I can tell. If I'm wrong, though, I'm very wrong.

Assuming Fultz and Ball are gone:

1. De'Aaron Fox
2. Zach Collins
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Malik Monk
5. Frank Ntilikina

You're right, these great college defenders haven't panned out very well lately.

In2ition wrote:Zach Collins reminds me of Chris Dudley.

What about Bill Laimbeer?

Chris Dudley shot 50% from the line. If he had any game on offense, I imagine he'd have been very well thought of.

OE32 wrote:

In2ition wrote:Zach Collins reminds me of Chris Dudley.

What about Bill Laimbeer?

Chris Dudley shot 50% from the line. If he had any game on offense, I imagine he'd have been very well thought of.

I doubt that Collins will be as big of a jerk as Laimbeer was, but point taken about the shooting. Collins is a much better shooter than Dudley.

OE32 wrote:

Split T wrote:Here is how I envision the top 8 producing 5 years from now:

Fultz - 24/5/7 with 1.5 steals on .48/.38/.78 shooting splits
Jackson - 18/8/5 with 2 steals and 1 block on .50/.35/.70 shooting splits
Ball - 15/7/10 with 1.5 steals on .52/.40/.80 shooting splits
Fox - 20/4/7 with 2 steals on .46/.33/.78 shooting splits
Isaac - 16/9/2 with 2 steals and 2 blocks on .50/.38/.82 shooting splits
Tatum - 22/7/2.5 with 1 steal and 1 block on .48/.36/.82 shooting splits
Monk - 22/3/3 with 1 steal on .47/.40/.85 shooting splits
Smith - 20/5/5 with 1.5 steals on .46/.35/.78 shooting splits

You don't think a single player in the top 8 will bust? I hope this isn't where the rest of the board is at mentally.

I'm also very skeptical of Jackson. Athletic, high-energy, defense-first small forwards taken in the lotto seem to bust every other year. Justise Winslow, Stanley Johnson, MKG, Corey Brewer, Marvin Williams, Aaron Gordon... JJ could break the mold, but the mold he fits into is bust, as far as I can tell. If I'm wrong, though, I'm very wrong.

Assuming Fultz and Ball are gone:

1. De'Aaron Fox
2. Zach Collins
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Malik Monk
5. Frank Ntilikina

Sure some could bust, this was just a very general projection based on how I see their current skills.

Here's how I'd rank them on most likely to bust

1. Isaac - never fills out and becomes a 6'11 sf with a so so shot and no off the dribble skills, think Jonathon bender.
2. Smith - Never develops his playmaking or jumpshot ends up an athletic 0 guard. Think Marcus Banks.
3. Monk - No pg skills, black hole shooter, 2016 Brandon Knight.
4. Ball - never figures out how to create his own shot, can't guard anyone. Think Ricky rubio with a better shot and no defense.
5. Fox - stays skinny, can't shoot. 6'3 Ish Smith
6. Jackson - Never develops a jump shot. Think MKG
7. Tatum - I think at worst he's TJ Warren
8. Fultz - At worst he's jrue holiday or a 6'4 Kemba

Also, your skeptical of Jackson but not Ntilikina or Collins? I'm intrigued by Ntilikina, but we really have no idea what he's going to be. Collins put up good numbers on very limited minutes against not so great competition. He's definitely risky.

Split T wrote:

OE32 wrote:

Split T wrote:Here is how I envision the top 8 producing 5 years from now:

Fultz - 24/5/7 with 1.5 steals on .48/.38/.78 shooting splits
Jackson - 18/8/5 with 2 steals and 1 block on .50/.35/.70 shooting splits
Ball - 15/7/10 with 1.5 steals on .52/.40/.80 shooting splits
Fox - 20/4/7 with 2 steals on .46/.33/.78 shooting splits
Isaac - 16/9/2 with 2 steals and 2 blocks on .50/.38/.82 shooting splits
Tatum - 22/7/2.5 with 1 steal and 1 block on .48/.36/.82 shooting splits
Monk - 22/3/3 with 1 steal on .47/.40/.85 shooting splits
Smith - 20/5/5 with 1.5 steals on .46/.35/.78 shooting splits

You don't think a single player in the top 8 will bust? I hope this isn't where the rest of the board is at mentally.

I'm also very skeptical of Jackson. Athletic, high-energy, defense-first small forwards taken in the lotto seem to bust every other year. Justise Winslow, Stanley Johnson, MKG, Corey Brewer, Marvin Williams, Aaron Gordon... JJ could break the mold, but the mold he fits into is bust, as far as I can tell. If I'm wrong, though, I'm very wrong.

Assuming Fultz and Ball are gone:

1. De'Aaron Fox
2. Zach Collins
3. Jayson Tatum
4. Malik Monk
5. Frank Ntilikina

Sure some could bust, this was just a very general projection based on how I see their current skills.

Here's how I'd rank them on most likely to bust

1. Isaac - never fills out and becomes a 6'11 sf with a so so shot and no off the dribble skills, think Jonathon bender.
2. Smith - Never develops his playmaking or jumpshot ends up an athletic 0 guard. Think Marcus Banks.
3. Monk - No pg skills, black hole shooter, 2016 Brandon Knight.
4. Ball - never figures out how to create his own shot, can't guard anyone. Think Ricky rubio with a better shot and no defense.
5. Fox - stays skinny, can't shoot. 6'3 Ish Smith
6. Jackson - Never develops a jump shot. Think MKG
7. Tatum - I think at worst he's TJ Warren
8. Fultz - At worst he's jrue holiday or a 6'4 Kemba

Also, your skeptical of Jackson but not Ntilikina or Collins? I'm intrigued by Ntilikina, but we really have no idea what he's going to be. Collins put up good numbers on very limited minutes against not so great competition. He's definitely risky.

I agree. I've taken Ntilikina's physical profile given his projected position as well as his youth as a plus over Jackson, but I don't know anything, really.

If we could walk away from this draft with one of Nitlikina, Monk or Fox, as well as Collins, I'd give that draft an A. If we could move BK and get a useful (even if overpaid) veteran in the process, I'd give that an A+.