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Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I feel like I must be crazy or something. You guys really wouldn't give up an unproven rookie who can't shoot for an All-Star who's got a ring, single-handedly won Finals games for his team, and is a threat to go off for 30+ every night? Who is 25 years old, on a very reasonable contract for 2-3 more years, and is looking for a new situation? One of probably the top 10-12 players in the NBA, the kind of player who is rarely gettable in a trade?

First of all, you overrate Kyrie.

Second, eight years of JJ for two years of Kyrie? What's the point? We're not going to be relevant the next two years, with or without Kyrie.

If Irving was a defensive stalwart, I'd be all in trading for him. But he's just a downright awful liability on that end, he doesn't even try. He's a perennial all-star who plays actual NBA games like they are all-star games. We'd just be copying what Portland is doing, meh. The only way I see Kyrie working out here is if JJ is an elite defender and if Booker somehow takes unprecedented steps onthe defensive end as well.

That being said, I still think there is a significant chance we land him, w/o moving Jackson. McD can act like he's not starving to add a "star" but we've seen him already chase LBJ and LMA, no way he's not heavily considering Bledsoe/picks and more.

Does Knight's injury affect any potential deals involving Bleds? Even if we get Frank back, he's probably not ready to see any significant minutes which leaves us with just Ulis. I'm not sure Knight would've been on the team or would've even played had Bledsoe been traded, but at least we had that option. Would we sign a veteran? Which are left? Jameer Nelson? Ty Lawson?

ShelC wrote:Does Knight's injury affect any potential deals involving Bleds? Even if we get Frank back, he's probably not ready to see any significant minutes which leaves us with just Ulis. I'm not sure Knight would've been on the team or would've even played had Bledsoe been traded, but at least we had that option. Would we sign a veteran? Which are left? Jameer Nelson? Ty Lawson?

You know we would bring back Ronnie Price.

I havent' heard about Brandon Jennings, Derrick Williams, or Ramon Sessions. I think it's assumed they will be back with thier teams, but maybe you could steal one of them.

After that it's a pretty big drop off. Udric, Monte Ellis, Foye, Barbosa.

If we send out Bled for a rookie, we're going to have to trust that rookie + Ulis to play a lot. I'm ok with that.

Mike James

Valid point.

Think you mean Deron Williams, O. But yea, slim pickings and while I love Ulis I don't know that he's a 30+ mpg starter. Maybe he is this season but I can't see him as a future starting PG.

If we bring in a vet, are they ok playing off the bench in a mentor role or are we looking for a starter? You also want to bring in the right vet with the right attitude...not sure Deron, Ty Lawson, Jennings, Ellis are good fits. Randy Foye is solid, if unspectacular.

Furlanfufi wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I feel like I must be crazy or something. You guys really wouldn't give up an unproven rookie who can't shoot for an All-Star who's got a ring, single-handedly won Finals games for his team, and is a threat to go off for 30+ every night? Who is 25 years old, on a very reasonable contract for 2-3 more years, and is looking for a new situation? One of probably the top 10-12 players in the NBA, the kind of player who is rarely gettable in a trade?

Singlehandedly won finals games is a far reach. The data shows that he's not that good without Lebron.
I don't think he's a top 12 NBA player either. His skills also don't mesh too well with our future star, and by the time our team peak he may be out of here.
If he's willing to get out of the team that's been in the finals the last 2 years, what he'll do when the Suns realize they can't win with him being 1A?

it's true cavs did not shine with lebron on the bench in the playoffs
but imo that's because Love (1 of the big 3) stinks and besides kyrie, the other's are offensively challenged
as a team, the cavs have excellent defense
but their offense is lebron and kyrie

but i still give ky a big deduction for low assists and astro-physics iq

Bickley chimed in on this debate.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 511237001/

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I feel like I must be crazy or something. You guys really wouldn't give up an unproven rookie who can't shoot for an All-Star who's got a ring, single-handedly won Finals games for his team, and is a threat to go off for 30+ every night? Who is 25 years old, on a very reasonable contract for 2-3 more years, and is looking for a new situation? One of probably the top 10-12 players in the NBA, the kind of player who is rarely gettable in a trade?

Trades need to make your team better, not just be equal etc. Jackson is essential to Kyrie making sense on this team. If you are trading for a player who is super on offense and defective on defense, you need to keep your best defender, and Jackson is likely that. We should not HAVE to give up Jackson in a trade for Kyrie. We have enough other pieces.

At this point the Cavs have 0 leverage as Kyrie has made it clear he wants to be traded. If no other team is offering a better deal then what we have already presumably offered then they'll have to trade with us.

iLLmatic wrote:At this point the Cavs have 0 leverage as Kyrie has made it clear he wants to be traded. If no other team is offering a better deal then what we have already presumably offered then they'll have to trade with us.

I agree. Its really about the market. What will other teams offer? I just don't think the teams with lots of assets to offer are interested. Maybe Minnesota. Philly, Phoenix, Boston, Sacramento, Denver. That is about it unless they have an interest in getting Melo.

Cap wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I feel like I must be crazy or something. You guys really wouldn't give up an unproven rookie who can't shoot for an All-Star who's got a ring, single-handedly won Finals games for his team, and is a threat to go off for 30+ every night? Who is 25 years old, on a very reasonable contract for 2-3 more years, and is looking for a new situation? One of probably the top 10-12 players in the NBA, the kind of player who is rarely gettable in a trade?

First of all, you overrate Kyrie.

Second, eight years of JJ for two years of Kyrie? What's the point? We're not going to be relevant the next two years, with or without Kyrie.

As well as underrate Jackson's shooting. Plus, he'll no longer be unproven before the end of his first season.

In2ition wrote:Bickley chimed in on this debate.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 511237001/

Strongly agree with Bickley's take.

Jackson is an intriguing piece. He’s intellectually engaged, fierce and confident, a defensive presence that could conceivably make a difference in the Western Conference. But highly touted rookies aren’t what they used to be in the NBA, where busts have become the rule and not the exception. If you believe Jackson is a sure thing, you haven’t been paying attention.

...

Even if it means losing a prized rookie. Because greatness doesn't come easy and it doesn't come cheap.

Greatness isn't available though.

Tom Haberstroh replied on ESPN that he thinks the Suns can get Kyrie for Bledsoe and Dudley, without giving up Jackson or picks.

Personally, I think it will take Bledsoe, Warren and possibly Dudley, and it would be a good deal for Kyrie.

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:Greatness isn't available though.

True.

In2ition wrote:Tom Haberstroh replied on ESPN that he thinks the Suns can get Kyrie for Bledsoe and Dudley, without giving up Jackson or picks.

Personally, I think it will take Bledsoe, Warren and possibly Dudley, and it would be a good deal for Kyrie.

I'm cool with giving that up. Warren/Bledsoe/pick. I think that's a good deal for a team with a disgruntled player.

In2ition wrote:Tom Haberstroh replied on ESPN that he thinks the Suns can get Kyrie for Bledsoe and Dudley, without giving up Jackson or picks.

Personally, I think it will take Bledsoe, Warren and possibly Dudley, and it would be a good deal for Kyrie.

That I'd do.

If you could get away with just Bledsoe and Dudley, they should extend McD again. Then they should persue the trade possibility for Drummond.