Phx-Suns.Net

Every single player in the NBA has good and bad nights. It is what it is. Sometimes you are the bug and sometimes the windshield.

Nodack wrote: Sometimes you are the bug and sometimes the windshield.

Great quote.

What a shit show. If I had paid to see that game I'd have been pissed.

I am trying to find positive things about that game but there aren't many because most of the stats were padded after the Pacers were up 40.

They did a pretty good job defensively covering Booker and making him give the ball up and Warren didn't really step up enough to take any pressure off.

Bender sucks. I know we are still trying to be patient with him but he's played 92 games now and has had maybe 10 good games I'd say. It's just not enough for a guy who's been playing professionally since like 15 right? He's way closer to the Nikolas Tskitisvili end of the spectrum than anything else right now. He was invisible out there.

I think if Canaan is on the team still after the trade deadline then it will symbolize a very underwhelming deadline. I'm fine with bringing another G Leaguer in at this point. He puts up 16 pts about every 4th game. Other games he like 2-7 or 2-9.

Getting down 40 to the Pacers isn't OK. I was leaning towards keeping Triano just for some continuity but now I'm leaning away from it.

djy2j wrote:Bender sucks. I know we are still trying to be patient with him but he's played 92 games now and has had maybe 10 good games I'd say. It's just not enough for a guy who's been playing professionally since like 15 right? He's way closer to the Nikolas Tskitisvili end of the spectrum than anything else right now. He was invisible out there.

I don't think this take is very fair to Bender. He's not even old enough to order a beer, and he got very spotty minutes in his rookie season. He's also gotten a bit spotty of minutes earlier this season. I don't think he has really had all that much time to grow and acclimate yet.

If our team is going to draft guys like Bender, we have to be willing to give them several years to grow to see what they can become. You can't draft a 19-year-old raw Euro and then demand that he be ready to be a starting NBA PF in a year. It just doesn't work that way.

He may end up being a bust, but we can't say that yet with any certainty.

There’s prospects that you can tell they are just young and are making mistakes, then there’s players that have no aggression and play scared. I have never seen somebody grow from the latter.

specialsauce wrote:There’s prospects that you can tell they are just young and are making mistakes, then there’s players that have no aggression and play scared. I have never seen somebody grow from the latter.

I think former Sun, Goran Dragic, is a good example of someone growing from an overmatched prospect to an aggressive quality scorer. I remember when he busted out against the Spurs we were all wondering where that relentless attacking of the basket came from. Just my 2c.

carey wrote:

specialsauce wrote:There’s prospects that you can tell they are just young and are making mistakes, then there’s players that have no aggression and play scared. I have never seen somebody grow from the latter.

I think former Sun, Goran Dragic, is a good example of someone growing from an overmatched prospect to an aggressive quality scorer. I remember when he busted out against the Spurs we were all wondering where that relentless attacking of the basket came from. Just my 2c.

I might be mis-remembering, but I thought that Dragic was actually pretty aggressive as he tried to use his athleticism. His problem was that his skill level needed to improve a bit and he was learning behind Nash. I just don't remember him being eunuch out there as a rookie and second year player.

Dragic was pretty passive. I remember he broke out because Gentry kept getting on him to be aggressive and wouldn't pull him out for making mistakes.

In2ition wrote:

carey wrote:

specialsauce wrote:There’s prospects that you can tell they are just young and are making mistakes, then there’s players that have no aggression and play scared. I have never seen somebody grow from the latter.

I think former Sun, Goran Dragic, is a good example of someone growing from an overmatched prospect to an aggressive quality scorer. I remember when he busted out against the Spurs we were all wondering where that relentless attacking of the basket came from. Just my 2c.

I might be mis-remembering, but I thought that Dragic was actually pretty aggressive as he tried to use his athleticism. His problem was that his skill level needed to improve a bit and he was learning behind Nash. I just don't remember him being eunuch out there as a rookie and second year player.

He was pretty athletic. Much more so than people expected.

He was very aggressive from the start. I have no idea where the memories of Dragic being passive come from.

https://youtu.be/l5hjgvsz9a8

A little refresher. I understand revisionist history in an attempt to convince yourself Bender can change, but sorry Goran was aggressive from the start.

specialsauce wrote:https://youtu.be/l5hjgvsz9a8

A little refresher. I understand revisionist history in an attempt to convince yourself Bender can change, but sorry Goran was aggressive from the start.

Ah, those were the days when the Suns were known as a good drafting team...

Sad

specialsauce wrote:https://youtu.be/l5hjgvsz9a8

A little refresher. I understand revisionist history in an attempt to convince yourself Bender can change, but sorry Goran was aggressive from the start.

A few things

1. Yes dragic was more aggressive than bender, but not nearly as aggressive as he is now. Here's some stats:

Pre All- Star rookie year per36 8.7 points, 9.5 FGA, 3.0 FTA, usage rate of 18.4
Post All-Star rookie year per36 14.8 points, 12.2FGA, 3.4 FTA, usage rate of 19.9
Dragic 2013-2014 season per36 20.8 points, 14.7FGA, 5.6 FTA, usage rate of 24.5
Bender's career numbers per36 9.1 points, 9.0 FGA, 0.7 FTA, usage rate of 13.1

2. Dragic entered the NBA 4 years older than Bender did
3. Dragic was always supposed to be an attacking guard
4. Bender is supposed to be a do it all forward who shoots 3's and makes the extra pass.
5. Do you know who else was pretty passive and not very good as a rookie? Dirk and he entered the nba older than bender is right now.

I don't think any of us think bender is going to be a star, but it blows my mind that you would write bender off as a basketball player when he's barely 20 because you think he's scared. If it's just your opinion that he won't succeed, that's one thing, but you talk like it's set in stone and he has zero chance of being a good basketball player.

Bender was billed as a good ball handler, take it to the hole in the fast break type of player. He makes Boris Diaw look like Allen Iverson. He doesn’t even try to make an offensive move. That’s not going to change. It’s his DNA.

Dirk was never passive just like Dragic wasn’t. Neither was Marc Gasol. Or Tony Parker. Or Ginobili. Or Greek freak. Or KP. Or Lauri Markkanen. They improved their games SURE, but their style of play and demeanor didn’t change. Age doesn’t fix that. Age may fix other things like improving his shot, cutting down on turnovers, improved defense, but he’s not going to become an aggressive player. I don’t think he’s cut out to be a core player in this league.

What I've noticed and bothers me is that he doesn't go hard after rebounds. Watch him. If it's close to anybody else, he just gives up on it and starts running down the court. Watch him on FTs. He doesn't feign much interest in getting the rebound and immediately starts running down the court.

specialsauce wrote:Bender was billed as a good ball handler, take it to the hole in the fast break type of player. He makes Boris Diaw look like Allen Iverson. He doesn’t even try to make an offensive move. That’s not going to change. It’s his DNA.

Dirk was never passive just like Dragic wasn’t. Neither was Marc Gasol. Or Tony Parker. Or Ginobili. Or Greek freak. Or KP. Or Lauri Markkanen. They improved their games SURE, but their style of play and demeanor didn’t change. Age doesn’t fix that. Age may fix other things like improving his shot, cutting down on turnovers, improved defense, but he’s not going to become an aggressive player. I don’t think he’s cut out to be a core player in this league.

How many of those guys came into the nba at 18? You're also only comparing him to the European superstars. No one has ever expected Bender to be a star.

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Bender was billed as a good ball handler, take it to the hole in the fast break type of player. He makes Boris Diaw look like Allen Iverson. He doesn’t even try to make an offensive move. That’s not going to change. It’s his DNA.

Dirk was never passive just like Dragic wasn’t. Neither was Marc Gasol. Or Tony Parker. Or Ginobili. Or Greek freak. Or KP. Or Lauri Markkanen. They improved their games SURE, but their style of play and demeanor didn’t change. Age doesn’t fix that. Age may fix other things like improving his shot, cutting down on turnovers, improved defense, but he’s not going to become an aggressive player. I don’t think he’s cut out to be a core player in this league.

How many of those guys came into the nba at 18? You're also only comparing him to the European superstars. No one has ever expected Bender to be a star.

Why not? One would expect quite a bit from the 4th pick in the draft.

Superbone wrote:

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Bender was billed as a good ball handler, take it to the hole in the fast break type of player. He makes Boris Diaw look like Allen Iverson. He doesn’t even try to make an offensive move. That’s not going to change. It’s his DNA.

Dirk was never passive just like Dragic wasn’t. Neither was Marc Gasol. Or Tony Parker. Or Ginobili. Or Greek freak. Or KP. Or Lauri Markkanen. They improved their games SURE, but their style of play and demeanor didn’t change. Age doesn’t fix that. Age may fix other things like improving his shot, cutting down on turnovers, improved defense, but he’s not going to become an aggressive player. I don’t think he’s cut out to be a core player in this league.

How many of those guys came into the nba at 18? You're also only comparing him to the European superstars. No one has ever expected Bender to be a star.

Why not? One would expect quite a bit from the 4th pick in the draft.

Sure, if you're only looking at draft position. That draft was bad, one of the worst ever. Put Bender in last year's draft or this year's draft and he's a borderline lotto pick. Definitely not top 10.

I would argue his talent level puts him at the end of the first round. You get drafted 4th overall with the hype he had, I’m sorry people did expect him to be a star.