Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:I'd rather not have him. I worry he will lead us to win some games that we otherwise wouldn't this year, and at this point the ultimate goal is Ayton or Doncic.

He wasn't exactly helping Orlando win games. He's a PG that can run an offense and will prevent disasters like last night from happening when Booker is out and our young guys can't create any offense. Player development is the most important thing and i think having a real PG is crucial.

This.He also can drive to the hoop, which will be better than our guys messing around the 3pt line with slow hands off and lazy p and r's

Player development is important when you have players capable of developing. I'm not worried about developing our shit stack, I'm more worried about acquiring our future franchise player

Assuming Irving for Bledsoe/2017 pick/Miami pick was on the table, these are the two options we were looking at.

Package A:

• #4 pick in the 2017 draft
  Miami pick
  Pick we would eventually get for Bledsoe
  A lot of ping pong balls in the 2018 lottery
  A lot of cap room in 2018 with which we might acquire assets from a team looking to dump salary
  A better chance to sign Irving in 2019, assuming he follows through on his declared intention to go to the best situation.

Package B:

• Two years of Irving
  A better chance to sign Irving in 2019, assuming he, contrary to his declared intention, decides to get a little more money by re-upping with his current team, without regard to the situation.

I preferred to gamble on Package A instead of Package B. The fact that Jackson has been underwhelming as a rookie doesn't change that calculation much. The fact that the three future picks, 2018 cap room, and 2019 FA market have yet to yield dividends obviously doesn't affect it at all.

Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in Package A. As you already know, ping pong balls don't guarantee anything. And I'd say you have a MUCH better chance of keeping a FA after trading for him than you do recruiting him to come to Phoenix. Look at our history of stars. We've never(?) recruited a big time player to come here.

I'll take the sure thing than wishing for a miracle that so far we haven't done shit with. We've had a ton of cap room for years and we've been looking to acquire assets from a team looking to dump salary, we've come away with absolutely nothing.

specialsauce wrote:Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in Package A. As you already know, ping pong balls don't guarantee anything. And I'd say you have a MUCH better chance of keeping a FA after trading for him than you do recruiting him to come to Phoenix. Look at our history of stars. We've never(?) recruited a big time player to come here.

I'll take the sure thing than wishing for a miracle that so far we haven't done s*** with. We've had a ton of cap room for years and we've been looking to acquire assets from a team looking to dump salary, we've come away with absolutely nothing.

The only "sure thing" we'd have gotten with this deal is two years of flirting with .500.

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in Package A. As you already know, ping pong balls don't guarantee anything. And I'd say you have a MUCH better chance of keeping a FA after trading for him than you do recruiting him to come to Phoenix. Look at our history of stars. We've never(?) recruited a big time player to come here.

I'll take the sure thing than wishing for a miracle that so far we haven't done s*** with. We've had a ton of cap room for years and we've been looking to acquire assets from a team looking to dump salary, we've come away with absolutely nothing.

The only "sure thing" we'd have gotten with this deal is two years of flirting with .500.

If you really think that we would have acquired Irving and done nothing else, stood pat and ended up .500, there's really nothing to say. You've clearly made up your mind that the Suns are better off without him and you're trying to rationalize it yourself.

specialsauce wrote:

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in Package A. As you already know, ping pong balls don't guarantee anything. And I'd say you have a MUCH better chance of keeping a FA after trading for him than you do recruiting him to come to Phoenix. Look at our history of stars. We've never(?) recruited a big time player to come here.

I'll take the sure thing than wishing for a miracle that so far we haven't done s*** with. We've had a ton of cap room for years and we've been looking to acquire assets from a team looking to dump salary, we've come away with absolutely nothing.

The only "sure thing" we'd have gotten with this deal is two years of flirting with .500.

If you really think that we would have acquired Irving and done nothing else, stood pat and ended up .500, there's really nothing to say. You've clearly made up your mind that the Suns are better off without him and you're trying to rationalize it yourself.

No, I think we're better off with all the assets in Package A. We weren't getting him for free.

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:

Cap wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Man that's a lot of hypotheticals and unknowns in Package A. As you already know, ping pong balls don't guarantee anything. And I'd say you have a MUCH better chance of keeping a FA after trading for him than you do recruiting him to come to Phoenix. Look at our history of stars. We've never(?) recruited a big time player to come here.

I'll take the sure thing than wishing for a miracle that so far we haven't done s*** with. We've had a ton of cap room for years and we've been looking to acquire assets from a team looking to dump salary, we've come away with absolutely nothing.

The only "sure thing" we'd have gotten with this deal is two years of flirting with .500.

If you really think that we would have acquired Irving and done nothing else, stood pat and ended up .500, there's really nothing to say. You've clearly made up your mind that the Suns are better off without him and you're trying to rationalize it yourself.

No, I think we're better off with all the assets in Package A. We weren't getting him for free.

Fair, and I don't think any of those assets will turn out to be better than Kyrie Irving and the team we would have built around he and Book. Agree to disagree.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:In some ways the weaknesses of our team mirror those of the Magic in recent seasons. We, and they, have a bunch of young guys without having very many who look like real keepers or stars. Both teams have not nearly enough shooters. Both teams have a glut of mediocre big men and an unclear pecking order or rotation between them. Both teams can't seem to find a PG solution.

We have at least two major differences over that Magic roster that give me hope: (1) A real honest-to-goodness budding star in Booker, who's far better than anybody on the Magic roster; and (2) A relative lack of toxic long-term contracts to underperforming veteran players.

Knight, Chandler, and Dudley all fit that description. We have nearly $40 million dollars per year tied up in guys who rarely play.

Of them, Knight's is the worst. Nice enough guy, but a terrible basketball player.

Flagrant Fowl wrote:https://twitter.com/elfrid/status/961105074436046848 LOLz

The replies to this are brutal.

virtual9mm wrote:I have always wanted to have a Gambel's Quail on the roster. Perfect symbol of the Arizona desert





Speaking of which, I wonder if there's an instant upgrade waiting to be unlocked, on both Payton and Jackson. There's so much anecdotal evidence that an afro hurts shooting. It would be so funny if the Suns could get the two to shave, and they upped their shooting percentages.

http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/n ... in-the-way

Overall, I love this trade. If Payton suddenly flourishes with the change of scenery, the Suns all of a sudden have one massive hole to fill, not two.

I LOLed at work, then texted this to the old ladies in my family. They are hoops fans, bird watchers, and avid fashion critics. They went crazy.

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

Indy wrote:

Wally_West wrote: Memphis second rounder that we own

Not sure this is the best place, but https://www.prosportstransactions.com/b ... e/Suns.htm says it isn't expected to transfer this year. Am I missing something?

“That moment when you can’t believe you are the team taking advantage...”

I think either we agreed to just take him off their hands but still have to send something in return, (so we send the pick less likely to convey) or they were so desperate to sold him for anything, that we forced them to take this pick among all. “Draft considerations” sounds much better than “let him walk for nothing”, and the casual fan mostly forgets to look out for what happened with a second rounder.

Quick, lock him up to a multi-year contract!

We better do it, that huge investment needs to be justified, a dubious second rounder for just half season on Elfrid? No way, we are no cowards!!!

There is a real possibility that Payton turns out to be a better player for us than Knight.

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

Indy wrote: Not sure this is the best place, but https://www.prosportstransactions.com/b ... e/Suns.htm says it isn't expected to transfer this year. Am I missing something?

“That moment when you can’t believe you are the team taking advantage...”

I think either we agreed to just take him off their hands but still have to send something in return, (so we send the pick less likely to convey) or they were so desperate to sold him for anything, that we forced them to take this pick among all. “Draft considerations” sounds much better than “let him walk for nothing”, and the casual fan mostly forgets to look out for what happened with a second rounder.

Quick, lock him up to a multi-year contract!

We better do it, that huge investment needs to be justified, a dubious second rounder for just half season on Elfrid? No way, we are no cowards!!!

There is a real possibility that Payton turns out to be a better player for us than Knight.

What are the odds?

In2ition wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
“That moment when you can’t believe you are the team taking advantage...”

I think either we agreed to just take him off their hands but still have to send something in return, (so we send the pick less likely to convey) or they were so desperate to sold him for anything, that we forced them to take this pick among all. “Draft considerations” sounds much better than “let him walk for nothing”, and the casual fan mostly forgets to look out for what happened with a second rounder.

Quick, lock him up to a multi-year contract!

We better do it, that huge investment needs to be justified, a dubious second rounder for just half season on Elfrid? No way, we are no cowards!!!

There is a real possibility that Payton turns out to be a better player for us than Knight.

What are the odds?

Wow you are so far out on a limb here.

In2ition wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
“That moment when you can’t believe you are the team taking advantage...”

I think either we agreed to just take him off their hands but still have to send something in return, (so we send the pick less likely to convey) or they were so desperate to sold him for anything, that we forced them to take this pick among all. “Draft considerations” sounds much better than “let him walk for nothing”, and the casual fan mostly forgets to look out for what happened with a second rounder.

Quick, lock him up to a multi-year contract!

We better do it, that huge investment needs to be justified, a dubious second rounder for just half season on Elfrid? No way, we are no cowards!!!

There is a real possibility that Payton turns out to be a better player for us than Knight.

What are the odds?

50-50?

There's a very real possibility that Payton is just a 1/2 year rental for us. But, if you look at Knight's last 1.5 years of play, there's a also very real possibility that he never makes it back into any NBA rotation. I suppose we'll give him another shot just because of his contract. But I've got to think he'll be on a short leash.

Wormwood wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:In some ways the weaknesses of our team mirror those of the Magic in recent seasons. We, and they, have a bunch of young guys without having very many who look like real keepers or stars. Both teams have not nearly enough shooters. Both teams have a glut of mediocre big men and an unclear pecking order or rotation between them. Both teams can't seem to find a PG solution.

We have at least two major differences over that Magic roster that give me hope: (1) A real honest-to-goodness budding star in Booker, who's far better than anybody on the Magic roster; and (2) A relative lack of toxic long-term contracts to underperforming veteran players.

Knight, Chandler, and Dudley all fit that description. We have nearly $40 million dollars per year tied up in guys who rarely play.

Of them, Knight's is the worst. Nice enough guy, but a terrible basketball player.

I don't think those contracts are that bad. All 3 of those guys are on relatively short, non-max, contracts. And at least 2/3 of them are likely to either retire, leave, or take a buyout after this year. It's easy money to get out of, and it isn't all that much money to begin with.

I just don't buy the argument that the Suns have a bad cap/contract situation. For all his faults, McDo has done a nice job of keeping our books relatively clean so we could go after FAs if we wanted to.

Indy wrote:

Wally_West wrote:

Indy wrote:Which pick is it?

Memphis second rounder that we own

Not sure this is the best place, but https://www.prosportstransactions.com/b ... e/Suns.htm says it isn't expected to transfer this year. Am I missing something?

The site is a little confusing, but basically it said the grizzlies pick won't transfer because it's not the 2nd most favorable pick, it's the most favorable currently. However, Memphis has their 2nd, the hornets 2nd, and the heat 2nd.

The rockets get the lowest of those 2nds and we get the middle one. So we won't get the grizzlies pick, but we'll get the hornets pick.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

Wormwood wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:In some ways the weaknesses of our team mirror those of the Magic in recent seasons. We, and they, have a bunch of young guys without having very many who look like real keepers or stars. Both teams have not nearly enough shooters. Both teams have a glut of mediocre big men and an unclear pecking order or rotation between them. Both teams can't seem to find a PG solution.

We have at least two major differences over that Magic roster that give me hope: (1) A real honest-to-goodness budding star in Booker, who's far better than anybody on the Magic roster; and (2) A relative lack of toxic long-term contracts to underperforming veteran players.

Knight, Chandler, and Dudley all fit that description. We have nearly $40 million dollars per year tied up in guys who rarely play.

Of them, Knight's is the worst. Nice enough guy, but a terrible basketball player.

I don't think those contracts are that bad. All 3 of those guys are on relatively short, non-max, contracts. And at least 2/3 of them are likely to either retire, leave, or take a buyout after this year. It's easy money to get out of, and it isn't all that much money to begin with.

I just don't buy the argument that the Suns have a bad cap/contract situation. For all his faults, McDo has done a nice job of keeping our books relatively clean so we could go after FAs if we wanted to.

Not really. If McD had his way we'd have LeMarcus Aldridge tied up with that Tyson Chandler contract. The only thing that has kept McD from making dumb signings is that no one wants to play here.

Dave King (whose writing is getting more and more bitter) has a piece that includes the salary cap implications of having Payton:

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2018 ... his-summer

Payton will be a restricted free agent this summer, with a cap hold of just a hair under $10 million when free agency begins.

He lays out the extreme scenarios of what it will look like to keep everyone and what it will look like to renounce right to everyone.

If we renounce no one, we go into the offseason as an over the cap team and can use the mid level exception (roughly 9 million a year). I like this scenario as there is no one I want to sign for more than 9 million a year anyways. Will be interesting to see what we do with Alan Williams. If we waive his non guaranteed deal, that's a big sign we're going after someone for big money.