Phx-Suns.Net

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:29 pm

So they've matched their win total for all of last year and still have 36 games remaining. I'd have to call it a successful year overall so far. Some of us had unrealistic expectations after the start this year (yep, I was one of them), but objectively, they have a good shot at winning 35 games and I think almost all would have been happy with that after the last couple of years.

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Some really nice defense from Bridges and saric in this one.
Bridges still passing up plenty of shot and diving too deep before passing out. My guess is they’ve told him to be more aggressive but he is still developing.

Managed to hold our nerve

Refs really tried to hand this one to the spurs. That blocking call on booker with the replay was disgraceful

It’s a good day went you send 1000’s of spurs fans home unhappy. Fuck you spurs! Fuck you!

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:06 am

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:29 pm

So they've matched their win total for all of last year and still have 36 games remaining. I'd have to call it a successful year overall so far. Some of us had unrealistic expectations after the start this year (yep, I was one of them), but objectively, they have a good shot at winning 35 games and I think almost all would have been happy with that after the last couple of years.

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

You’d think so but hey

You’d hope we at least make a few small smart trades and improve the bench just a smidge.

Doesn't get better than beating Spurs in SA. So happy today... Booker is more than just an All-Star...

Danimal wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:45 am

Some really nice defense from Bridges and saric in this one.
Bridges still passing up plenty of shot and diving too deep before passing out. My guess is they’ve told him to be more aggressive but he is still developing.

Managed to hold our nerve

Refs really tried to hand this one to the spurs. That blocking call on booker with the replay was disgraceful

It’s a good day went you send 1000’s of spurs fans home unhappy. f*** you spurs! f*** you!

It sure did seem like an uphill battle against the refs all night long. I felt like maybe one or two calls went our way the whole night.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:06 am

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:29 pm

So they've matched their win total for all of last year and still have 36 games remaining. I'd have to call it a successful year overall so far. Some of us had unrealistic expectations after the start this year (yep, I was one of them), but objectively, they have a good shot at winning 35 games and I think almost all would have been happy with that after the last couple of years.

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Since the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:06 am

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:29 pm

So they've matched their win total for all of last year and still have 36 games remaining. I'd have to call it a successful year overall so far. Some of us had unrealistic expectations after the start this year (yep, I was one of them), but objectively, they have a good shot at winning 35 games and I think almost all would have been happy with that after the last couple of years.

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Sonce the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:06 am

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:29 pm

So they've matched their win total for all of last year and still have 36 games remaining. I'd have to call it a successful year overall so far. Some of us had unrealistic expectations after the start this year (yep, I was one of them), but objectively, they have a good shot at winning 35 games and I think almost all would have been happy with that after the last couple of years.

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Sonce the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

The first game of the season when we beat the Kings handily. Since then we have been undermanned in one form or another.

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:06 am

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:29 pm

So they've matched their win total for all of last year and still have 36 games remaining. I'd have to call it a successful year overall so far. Some of us had unrealistic expectations after the start this year (yep, I was one of them), but objectively, they have a good shot at winning 35 games and I think almost all would have been happy with that after the last couple of years.

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Sonce the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

The first game of the season when we beat the Kings handily. Since then we have been undermanned in one form or another.

Which team isn't or hasn't been for stretches of the season?

Obviously Ayton's suspension hurt a lot because it was entirely preventable, unlike an injury. I don't see how the Suns injury situation is any different from that of the average team.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:49 pm

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:06 am

A minimum of 11 wins in these remaining 36 games isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Sonce the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

The first game of the season when we beat the Kings handily. Since then we have been undermanned in one form or another.

Which team isn't or hasn't been for stretches of the season?

Obviously Ayton's suspension hurt a lot because it was entirely preventable, unlike an injury. I don't see how the Suns injury situation is any different from that of the average team.

Without the Ayton suspension and the injuries to Booker, Rubio, and Ayton when it hurt (timing matters), I'd say that this is a bit better than a .500 team, like a 45-game winner.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:57 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:49 pm

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Sonce the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

The first game of the season when we beat the Kings handily. Since then we have been undermanned in one form or another.

Which team isn't or hasn't been for stretches of the season?

Obviously Ayton's suspension hurt a lot because it was entirely preventable, unlike an injury. I don't see how the Suns injury situation is any different from that of the average team.

Without the Ayton suspension and the injuries to Booker, Rubio, and Ayton when it hurt (timing matters), I'd say that this is a bit better than a .500 team, like a 45-game winner.

Agreed - we've been hit pretty badly with players out, and the luck we've had - calls, big shots etc - has been something else. Hopefully we LeVert to the mean (nice work Supe ) the second half of the season.

And I still don't understand how TJ has dived like he has. I predicted 40-44 wins based in part on how 'well' we played with him last year.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:57 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:49 pm

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Sonce the end of the 8 game losing streak, the team is 7-6. I think the results show that when healthy this is about a .500 team.

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

The first game of the season when we beat the Kings handily. Since then we have been undermanned in one form or another.

Which team isn't or hasn't been for stretches of the season?

Obviously Ayton's suspension hurt a lot because it was entirely preventable, unlike an injury. I don't see how the Suns injury situation is any different from that of the average team.

Without the Ayton suspension and the injuries to Booker, Rubio, and Ayton when it hurt (timing matters), I'd say that this is a bit better than a .500 team, like a 45-game winner.

My point is that it's not easy to just say they'd be close to .500 if those things didn't happen because every team has to deal with roster availability. Of course the Suns would be close to .500 if they didn't have any suspensions or injures, but that's not reality.

The main point I was trying to make, that's been bothering me a few weeks now, is that we legitimately don't know what this team is capable of. Yea, we've seen all the guys play at one point or another, but not play together over an extended stretch of games to really gauge where this roster is.

So when I see trade scenarios for "win-now" types...to what end are we making a trade? To make a playoff push for the 8th seed? Is bringing a guy like Derrick Rose into the lockerroom really a smart move and going to pay off? Locking up money on Kevin Love? Are we getting antsy now that we feel like we may have a shot at the postseason? Is that what this season was or is about? Or was this season about laying the foundation, setting the program and culture, identifying guys who fit?

Not saying we shouldn't look at deals to get better or cash in on some assets but I don't think Jones or Monty need, or maybe even want, to make a deal specific to making a playoff push.

Agree. No desperate moves.

Trade Ty Johnson for usable asset, such as a serviceable point guard or combo guard to fortify the bench.
Play Ty Jerorme and see if the lightbulb comes on.
Same with Diallo.
Hope Cam Johnson gets healthy and continue his development.
Keep the pedal to the metal on Ayton's development.
Hope Bridges gets a little more confidence in his shot
Hope Baynes gets healthier and close to what he was the first 10-15 games of the season.

Agree with ShelC and LL. Just keep building the foundation. Don't make a desperation move to get the 8th seed in the playoffs. Next year, I expect to make the playoffs.

LazarusLong wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:31 am

Agree. No desperate moves.

Trade Ty Johnson for usable asset, such as a serviceable point guard or combo guard to fortify the bench.
Play Ty Jerorme and see if the lightbulb comes on.
Same with Diallo.
Hope Cam Johnson gets healthy and continue his development.
Keep the pedal to the metal on Ayton's development.
Hope Bridges gets a little more confidence in his shot
Hope Baynes gets healthier and close to what he was the first 10-15 games of the season.

I want us to make use of the Tyler Johnson contract if we can use it to improve our team. But I hope we don't use it just to use it. I wouldn't want us to trade it for more long-term salary cap obligations.

I think one of the most outdated NBA ideas is the notion that expiring contracts are valuable chips that can/should be traded be traded for good players and assets. Look at how many assets we (stupidly?) spent to clear cap space this past offseason. Isn't it just as valuable to just let Johnson's deal expire and have that $20m in cap space, rather than tie up all that cap space for further seasons?

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:56 am

I want us to make use of the Tyler Johnson contract if we can use it to improve our team. But I hope we don't use it just to use it. I wouldn't want us to trade it for more long-term salary cap obligations.

I think one of the most outdated NBA ideas is the notion that expiring contracts are valuable chips that can/should be traded be traded for good players and assets. Look at how many assets we (stupidly?) spent to clear cap space this past offseason. Isn't it just as valuable to just let Johnson's deal expire and have that $20m in cap space, rather than tie up all that cap space for further seasons?

Thank you.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:36 am

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:57 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:49 pm

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:17 pm

Could be better than .500...when have we been healthy?

The first game of the season when we beat the Kings handily. Since then we have been undermanned in one form or another.

Which team isn't or hasn't been for stretches of the season?

Obviously Ayton's suspension hurt a lot because it was entirely preventable, unlike an injury. I don't see how the Suns injury situation is any different from that of the average team.

Without the Ayton suspension and the injuries to Booker, Rubio, and Ayton when it hurt (timing matters), I'd say that this is a bit better than a .500 team, like a 45-game winner.

My point is that it's not easy to just say they'd be close to .500 if those things didn't happen because every team has to deal with roster availability. Of course the Suns would be close to .500 if they didn't have any suspensions or injures, but that's not reality.

Well, we obviously aren't a strong enough team to withstand injuries to multiple starters this season. For those trying to guess if we have a shot at the playoffs, it's a question of how many more games our guys will miss.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:56 am

LazarusLong wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:31 am

Agree. No desperate moves.

Trade Ty Johnson for usable asset, such as a serviceable point guard or combo guard to fortify the bench.
Play Ty Jerorme and see if the lightbulb comes on.
Same with Diallo.
Hope Cam Johnson gets healthy and continue his development.
Keep the pedal to the metal on Ayton's development.
Hope Bridges gets a little more confidence in his shot
Hope Baynes gets healthier and close to what he was the first 10-15 games of the season.

I want us to make use of the Tyler Johnson contract if we can use it to improve our team. But I hope we don't use it just to use it. I wouldn't want us to trade it for more long-term salary cap obligations.

I think one of the most outdated NBA ideas is the notion that expiring contracts are valuable chips that can/should be traded be traded for good players and assets. Look at how many assets we (stupidly?) spent to clear cap space this past offseason. Isn't it just as valuable to just let Johnson's deal expire and have that $20m in cap space, rather than tie up all that cap space for further seasons?

Saving $ is always good, and we certainly don't want to spend 20M just to spend it. But bear in mind that we are at / over the cap as we stand and will not necessarily be able to spend the 20M if we let the contract expire.

The cap next year is predicted to be about $116M. We have Baynes, Saric, and TJ expiring and will be at about $92M before the draft. Our rookies might end up costing around $6M. Now we have $18M before resigning or replacing Baynes or Saric.

Maybe Jones gets that PF in the draft, brings back Baynes and Saric, and calls it an offseason. Maybe he lets Saric go and signs a different player instead. But you can't go out and sign someone for near $20M unless you let 2 rotation players go. Those options at best only increase the number of good rotation players by one. The team really needs 2 or 3 good rotation players.

The thing is, all of those moves are still possible as an over the cap team. If Jones trades TJ for someone at a similar salary, he gos into the offseason with that salary already on the books and he can still draft someone and resign Baynes and Saric. In that case he has one more rotation player on the roster than he otherwise would have.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:34 am

Saving $ is always good, and we certainly don't want to spend 20M just to spend it. But bear in mind that we are at / over the cap as we stand and will not necessarily be able to spend the 20M if we let the contract expire.

The cap next year is predicted to be about $116M. We have Baynes, Saric, and TJ expiring and will be at about $92M before the draft. Our rookies might end up costing around $6M. Now we have $18M before resigning or replacing Baynes or Saric.

Maybe Jones gets that PF in the draft, brings back Baynes and Saric, and calls it an offseason. Maybe he lets Saric go and signs a different player instead. But you can't go out and sign someone for near $20M unless you let 2 rotation players go. Those options at best only increase the number of good rotation players by one. The team really needs 2 or 3 good rotation players.

The thing is, all of those moves are still possible as an over the cap team. If Jones trades TJ for someone at a similar salary, he gos into the offseason with that salary already on the books and he can still draft someone and resign Baynes and Saric. In that case he has one more rotation player on the roster than he otherwise would have.

That is useful info. You're correct that we can still re-sign our existing guys even if we trade TJ for somebody this season. But I think that way of thinking about it overly focuses on the current offseason to the detriment of future (off)seasons. That's still $20m less on the books we could have available in a future offseason, such as to re-sign an Oubre or Ayton, or have cap available in a year or two for a big FA push, or any number of other moves.

The money is either on the books or it isn't. If it didn't matter to have $20m more on your cap, why did we dump multiple players and picks just to get out of TJ Warren's and Josh Jackson's contracts?