Game Day: Magic (8-6) @ Suns (9-5), Mon 11/18/24

[specialsauce]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Franz fucking Wagner drops 32.

It's the same story every night. An opposing team has a player that can go off but the excuses pour in for why Booker can't do the same.

The Magic just surrounded Wagner with so much fucking talent that we couldn't shut him down.

Booker is the easiest "star" to shut down in the league.

You do remember Booker scored 44 last night right?

It was the 2nd night of a b2b against the best defense in the league and Book was missing 3 of 4 fellow starters, including the top 2 other creators.

And yes the Magic had more talent around Wagner than we had around Booker tonight.

I will agree that Booker can be taken out of games easier than a lot of stars when he doesn’t have help, but he’s a more dangerous weapon than 1/2 of those guys on your list when he does have help. I don’t think anyone has ever thought he was Luka, he’s not an on-ball star. His value comes from being able to play on and off ball. A lot of on ball stars are terrible off ball.

Whoop de doo he had a one off game of 44 in between a series of duds.

[Gladiator]

Good point about Book being good on and off ball. He does feed off other great players (unlike some stars who can only play their way), and he has shown himself to be a pretty unselfish star who will try to do whatever the team needs (the exact opposite of his early ‘meaningless big stats’ reputation).

[The Bobster]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Franz fucking Wagner drops 32.

It's the same story every night. An opposing team has a player that can go off but the excuses pour in for why Booker can't do the same.

The Magic just surrounded Wagner with so much fucking talent that we couldn't shut him down.

Booker is the easiest "star" to shut down in the league.

You do remember Booker scored 44 last night right?

It was the 2nd night of a b2b against the best defense in the league and Book was missing 3 of 4 fellow starters, including the top 2 other creators.

And yes the Magic had more talent around Wagner than we had around Booker tonight.

I will agree that Booker can be taken out of games easier than a lot of stars when he doesn’t have help, but he’s a more dangerous weapon than 1/2 of those guys on your list when he does have help. I don’t think anyone has ever thought he was Luka, he’s not an on-ball star. His value comes from being able to play on and off ball. A lot of on ball stars are terrible off ball.

Whoop de doo he had a one off game of 44 in between a series of duds.

--Durant out --
SAC (8-6) - 9/22, 22 pts (L)
UTH (3-10) - 11/20, 31 pts (W)
--Beal out--
SAC (8-6) - 6/16, 18 pts (L)
OKC (11-3) - 2/10, 12 pts (L)
MIN (8-6) - 15/29, 44 pts (L)
ORL (9-6) - 5/14, 17 pts (L)

Total - 48/121, 144 pts (1 W, 5 L)

Since Durant went out he's shooting 39.6% and averaging 24 points.
Since Beal went out he's shooting 40.5% and averaging 22.8 points.

But those stats are buoyed by his 44-point game against Minnesota. That game and the Utah game are the only who where he really stepped up.

The problem is, if Booker isn't scoring well it forces players like Jones, O'Neal, Allen and Okogie into roles that they are usually accustomed to. And while they've had some good games, they've had some clunkers too (O'Neal and Dunn have really struggled lately).

[Gladiator]

I feel like that’s a real issue for us. When one - or more - of our big 3 are out, we don’t have anyone capable of stepping up a rung in responsibility on the offensive end.

[SunsRIt]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Maybe if Booker practiced against double teams in pick-up games instead of complaining about them he would be better equipped to handle them.

[ShelC]

Postgame Quotes and Videos

Spoiler: show/hide

[ShelC]

More of the same, not enough juice to hang with a bigger, stronger team with more offensive options. Even tho it was a 10pt loss, we never really threatened IMO. Unless the other guys are hitting 3s, it's too easy to shut us down on offense. No one else besides Book can create offense or scare a defense. If you think that makes Book a 1b, so be it. Grayson's basically our #2 option. Royce was 1-8, Oso and Plumlee are zeros aside from dunks. If Book starts jacking up shots, he's selfish and an empty calorie scorer in a loss. So it's a no-win situation.

Oso did look really good. He can be a lob/roll threat, works hard in the paint even if he's sometimes overmatched and found his aggression going to the basket. He was passing up shots and not even looking at the rim early on. Betting someone got in his ear and told him to attack the rim because he turned it on with a few dunks. If there's any chance of him developing an outside jumper, we have a real player. But like Dunn, he'll start showing up on scouting reports and teams will take away his looks at the rim and force him to shoot. Sink or swim at that point.

This is the way the roster's built. Top heavy with really good complimentary pieces. 2 of our Big 3 are out. We knew going into the season that we were light in the frontcourt and if KD missed any time, we'd be in trouble with no real backup 4. So here we are. I don't blame the FO for the shortcoming because we had such cap limitations there aren't a lot of frontcourt players we could've added. Oso's development is nice and Plumlee's a nice backup. But no long, rangy offensive threat on the roster - and no, the answer isn't Bol.

Just gotta weather the storm and hope KD can make it back healthy and stay healthy.

[Mori Chu]

I worry that we struggle against big, tall, strong, athletic teams such as Orlando, OKC, Minny, NOP. That seems to be the direction the league is heading.

[Split T]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Maybe if Booker practiced against double teams in pick-up games instead of complaining about them he would be better equipped to handle them.

Bringing out a classic from half a decade ago. He’d also probably be better in the clutch if he’d stop complaining about mascots as well.

[iLLmatic]

I miss the 2021-2022 Devin Booker.

[specialsauce]

I miss the 2021-2022 Devin Booker.

Indeed. Before the shoe deal got in his head.

[specialsauce]

More of the same, not enough juice to hang with a bigger, stronger team with more offensive options. Even tho it was a 10pt loss, we never really threatened IMO. Unless the other guys are hitting 3s, it's too easy to shut us down on offense. No one else besides Book can create offense or scare a defense. If you think that makes Book a 1b, so be it. Grayson's basically our #2 option. Royce was 1-8, Oso and Plumlee are zeros aside from dunks. If Book starts jacking up shots, he's selfish and an empty calorie scorer in a loss. So it's a no-win situation.

Oso did look really good. He can be a lob/roll threat, works hard in the paint even if he's sometimes overmatched and found his aggression going to the basket. He was passing up shots and not even looking at the rim early on. Betting someone got in his ear and told him to attack the rim because he turned it on with a few dunks. If there's any chance of him developing an outside jumper, we have a real player. But like Dunn, he'll start showing up on scouting reports and teams will take away his looks at the rim and force him to shoot. Sink or swim at that point.

This is the way the roster's built. Top heavy with really good complimentary pieces. 2 of our Big 3 are out. We knew going into the season that we were light in the frontcourt and if KD missed any time, we'd be in trouble with no real backup 4. So here we are. I don't blame the FO for the shortcoming because we had such cap limitations there aren't a lot of frontcourt players we could've added. Oso's development is nice and Plumlee's a nice backup. But no long, rangy offensive threat on the roster - and no, the answer isn't Bol.

Just gotta weather the storm and hope KD can make it back healthy and stay healthy.

The problem is apparent that our top isn't that heavy.

We have a #1 in KD.

We thought we had 3 #1s. But really it's a #1, a #2 and a #3. If KD is hurt, the other two need each other because they aren't good enough to carry a team, and Beal mentally and physically can't put together a stretch of more than 10 games without begging for attention with a fake injury

[O_Gardino]

Rough game.

I continue to be impressed by Oso and Dunn. Okogie with some very efficient scoring the last few games.

I continue to be concerned with our roster composition. But I'm not going to freak out about losing with $120 million (or whatever they make) sitting injured. I'm not as discouraged as some folks. I think we are one good trade away from being legit contenders, and these tough games are giving us minutes and reps for the deep bench to get comfortable competing.

[iLLmatic]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Maybe if Booker practiced against double teams in pick-up games instead of complaining about them he would be better equipped to handle them.

Bringing out a classic from half a decade ago. He’d also probably be better in the clutch if he’d stop complaining about mascots as well.

This is not the same Devin Booker from the Finals run and even the year after. At one point he was the best shooting guard in the league and was emerging to a top 5 status in my mind.

[Ring_Wanted]

Way less close of a game than what the final score suggests. We really were never actually in it. Basically we are outmatched right now against any team in the upper third of the league, specially against physical defenses, but that's what happens when you lose 2 of your top3 players while being a top heavy roster, like ShelC points out.

I also believe the defeat against the Wolves hit the team hard.

On the bright side, we rebounded well offensively and Oso is showing real promise. His dunk off a pick and roll with Jones was really nice (if anyone did not catch it, it's here min. 1:47 -

[SunsSince92]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Maybe if Booker practiced against double teams in pick-up games instead of complaining about them he would be better equipped to handle them.

Bringing out a classic from half a decade ago. He’d also probably be better in the clutch if he’d stop complaining about mascots as well.

This is not the same Devin Booker from the Finals run and even the year after. At one point he was the best shooting guard in the league and was emerging to a top 5 status in my mind.

Agreed - he's not the same player he was and it feels like he's been on a downward trajectory for the past couple of seasons. There's probably a number of factors contributing to that which might include deferring to his idol KD, signing a shoe deal, the on/off relationships in his personal life.

He doesn't seem to have that ruthless streak in the clutch or with his back to the wall that you need to be a top 10 player in this league. He also makes bonehead decisions when under pressure. It's sad but I'm not sure our 'franchise' player is our best player anymore.

[Split T]

The best player on either team tonight had 32/5/8.

Devin Booker scored a whopping 18.

Booker is not a top 15 player in this league. Way too easy to shut him down and get him to make stupid decisions.

We had enough talent on this team to beat a Magic roster without Banchero or WCJ. The problem is our supposed franchise player isn't good enough to be a franchise player.

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Maybe if Booker practiced against double teams in pick-up games instead of complaining about them he would be better equipped to handle them.

Bringing out a classic from half a decade ago. He’d also probably be better in the clutch if he’d stop complaining about mascots as well.

This is not the same Devin Booker from the Finals run and even the year after. At one point he was the best shooting guard in the league and was emerging to a top 5 status in my mind.

I was just poking fun at SunsRIt for bringing up some random pickup double team comment from over 5 years ago. The Booker haters are stuck on that for some reason.

Also I’m not sure he is different. He hasn’t been great this year, but it’s still early and most of his struggles have come playing with an under manned roster and while playing sick. If he’s still struggling when KD and Beal get back I will worry.

[Split T]

I think you guys are confusing the suns downward trend with Booker. Here’s Bookers last 4 seasons(not counting this year):

20-21: 26/4/4 on 48/34/87 shooting. .587 TS
21-22: 27/5/5 on 47/38/87 shooting. .576 TS
22-23: 28/5/6 on 49/35/86 shooting. .601 TS
23-24: 27/5/7 on 49/36/89 shooting. .611 TS

Where exactly is the downward trend?

[specialsauce]

But please, you were saying?

[specialsauce]

Did you think he made bad decisions? They doubled him every touch…I really don’t know what you guys expect Booker to do. He didn’t have a good game, I won’t try to say otherwise, but being doubled every possession without another teammate who can create their own shot is a recipe for disaster. I’m impressed we had it within 10.

Maybe if Booker practiced against double teams in pick-up games instead of complaining about them he would be better equipped to handle them.

Bringing out a classic from half a decade ago. He’d also probably be better in the clutch if he’d stop complaining about mascots as well.

This is not the same Devin Booker from the Finals run and even the year after. At one point he was the best shooting guard in the league and was emerging to a top 5 status in my mind.

I was just poking fun at SunsRIt for bringing up some random pickup double team comment from over 5 years ago. The Booker haters are stuck on that for some reason.

Also I’m not sure he is different. He hasn’t been great this year, but it’s still early and most of his struggles have come playing with an under manned roster and while playing sick. If he’s still struggling when KD and Beal get back I will worry.

Man the excuses are rolling in hot!

First it's still "early" even though we're approaching Thanksgiving. Then he must have had Ebola or the equivalent the way people talk about his mysterious Conor Jackson illness and excused over a week of just awful bad play.

Now he's "under manned" going up against a bunch of teams whose best players shouldn't sniff his ass on the echelon of stars.

None of those explain his decision making, his constant barking at the refs and frustration plays.