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Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:38 pm
by ShelC
But we know he largely built the Finals team and it's gone downhill since Ishbia and Bartelstein got involved. The biggest moves - KD and Beal - were driven by Ishbia and Bartelstein, right?
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:38 pm
by Drewsprocket
We had a great 3 year starting with the bubble suns. They never should have traded away Bridges. But it’s just been one compounding mistake after another with the sunken cost. It’s OK to blow it up for picks and let Beal usher us into a two year tankpocalypse before he is a tasty expiring contract package deal.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:40 pm
by Split T
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:38 pm
But we know he largely built the Finals team and it's gone downhill since Ishbia and Bartelstein got involved. The biggest moves - KD and Beal - were driven by Ishbia and Bartelstein, right?
We don’t know for sure, but I would think so
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:40 pm
by SunsSince92
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:35 pm
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:28 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:26 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:11 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:42 pm
lol, not remotely close
Yeah I know, it’s sad that it’s not even remotely close, either.
I was gonna respond but it’s not worth it..if you really think this is worse than Sarver, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I seem to recall Jones worked for Sarver too. This isn't about Ishbia, it's about Jones and his incompetence.
Remind me what happened during Jones tenure as GM while Sarver was here? Here I’ll do it for you.
Monty, the bubble season, CP3, went to the finals, best record in franchise history. Then Ishbia and KD and Beal and Nurk, Vogel, Bud.
Pretty sure every move you have a problem with happened post Ishbia, no?
One exception is passing on Haliburton.
I mean there's taking Ayton over Luca too but let's not open that can of worms again
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:41 pm
by Split T
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:40 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:35 pm
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:28 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:26 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:11 pm
Yeah I know, it’s sad that it’s not even remotely close, either.
I was gonna respond but it’s not worth it..if you really think this is worse than Sarver, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I seem to recall Jones worked for Sarver too. This isn't about Ishbia, it's about Jones and his incompetence.
Remind me what happened during Jones tenure as GM while Sarver was here? Here I’ll do it for you.
Monty, the bubble season, CP3, went to the finals, best record in franchise history. Then Ishbia and KD and Beal and Nurk, Vogel, Bud.
Pretty sure every move you have a problem with happened post Ishbia, no?
One exception is passing on Haliburton.
I mean there's taking Ayton over Luca too but let's not open that can of worms again
Jones was on staff, but McD made that pick
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:43 pm
by SunsSince92
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:38 pm
But we know he largely built the Finals team and it's gone downhill since Ishbia and Bartelstein got involved. The biggest moves - KD and Beal - were driven by Ishbia and Bartelstein, right?
True but then in the same breath we're crediting him with drafting Dunn, Camara and Oso and pulling what we thought was a rabbit out of the hat getting Tyus to sign for the minimum. We now know the latter was actually a dud.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:43 pm
by Split T
One thing I just thought of…trading 2026 means we can now only trade 1 pick again(2028 or 2029). Maybe that’s a good thing though haha.
We can’t trade 2025 or 2027 because we have no 2026 and we can’t trade 2030 because we have no 2031. Won’t be able to trade 2032 either next year.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:44 pm
by SunsSince92
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:41 pm
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:40 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:35 pm
SunsSince92 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:28 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:26 pm
I was gonna respond but it’s not worth it..if you really think this is worse than Sarver, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I seem to recall Jones worked for Sarver too. This isn't about Ishbia, it's about Jones and his incompetence.
Remind me what happened during Jones tenure as GM while Sarver was here? Here I’ll do it for you.
Monty, the bubble season, CP3, went to the finals, best record in franchise history. Then Ishbia and KD and Beal and Nurk, Vogel, Bud.
Pretty sure every move you have a problem with happened post Ishbia, no?
One exception is passing on Haliburton.
I mean there's taking Ayton over Luca too but let's not open that can of worms again
Jones was on staff, but McD made that pick
Yep, my bad.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:53 pm
by ShelC
Pretty sure Sarver made the call over McD and Jones on Ayton.
And since Jones has taken over we've drafted pretty well regardless of Sarver of Ishbia/Bartelstein.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:55 pm
by Drewsprocket
Who cares about criticizing JJ. JJ is capable of making moves, he’s always been a win now type of gm. Perhaps there’s value in aligning towards a program from the ground up. Ishbia gets to put his finger prints on something from a start and hire with a different intention.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:55 pm
by Superbone
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:38 pm
But we know he largely built the Finals team and it's gone downhill since Ishbia and Bartelstein got involved. The biggest moves - KD and Beal - were driven by Ishbia and Bartelstein, right?
Right.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:57 pm
by Cap
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:53 pm
Pretty sure Sarver made the call over McD and Jones on Ayton.
Was Kokoskov even asked?
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:58 pm
by bajanguy008
Sigh
Really surprised by this. I had accepted it wouldn't have been a splash move but figured the position (F/C) was a given just a matter of who the player would be
Not adding size is a real curious one
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:59 pm
by ShelC
Apparently not. I think McD hired him with the intention of drafting Luka but Sarver wanted the Arizona star to sell tickets.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:03 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:24 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 11:56 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 11:49 am
I’m old enough to remember people saying on here (2 weeks ago), “At least Ishbia doesn’t attach first rounders just to dump salary, like Sarver did with Kurt Thomas.”
This is not the same thing at all
I’ll walk this back a little bit…it’s a little like it if we just let Martin/Micic walk. Bigger difference is Nurk lost all value on the court and seemed to be a problem in the locker room too. We needed to move him but couldn’t. Thomas was fine as a player still, Sarver was just cheap and we made no attempt to bring in a useful player for him in return…also of course the difference between 2 1sts and 1 1st plus getting a 2nd.
If money is not an issue, just waive him instead of surrendering a first. Then you get rid of the locker room problem.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:04 pm
by JeremyG
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:26 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:11 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:42 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:04 pm
The ineptitude has officially surpassed the Sarver-era ineptitude.
lol, not remotely close
Yeah I know, it’s sad that it’s not even remotely close, either.
I was gonna respond but it’s not worth it..if you really think this is worse than Sarver, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Certainly worse than late-Sarver era. Sarver took us to the Finals. Ishbia destroyed a Finals team.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:27 pm
by In2ition
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:59 pm
Apparently not. I think McD hired him with the intention of drafting Luka but Sarver wanted the Arizona star to sell tickets.
He greatly overestimated the impact of UofA players on ticket sales in Phoenix if that was the case. Winning sells tickets, not players from the Univeristy of North Nogales.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:12 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:03 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:24 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 11:56 am
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 11:49 am
I’m old enough to remember people saying on here (2 weeks ago), “At least Ishbia doesn’t attach first rounders just to dump salary, like Sarver did with Kurt Thomas.”
This is not the same thing at all
I’ll walk this back a little bit…it’s a little like it if we just let Martin/Micic walk. Bigger difference is Nurk lost all value on the court and seemed to be a problem in the locker room too. We needed to move him but couldn’t. Thomas was fine as a player still, Sarver was just cheap and we made no attempt to bring in a useful player for him in return…also of course the difference between 2 1sts and 1 1st plus getting a 2nd.
If money is not an issue, just waive him instead of surrendering a first. Then you get rid of the locker room problem.
Well I’m not saying it’s just the locker room problem. That’s why I walked it back a bit. It’s still quite different than trading Thomas with 2 1sts for nothing..
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:15 pm
by Split T
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:04 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:26 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:11 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:42 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:04 pm
The ineptitude has officially surpassed the Sarver-era ineptitude.
lol, not remotely close
Yeah I know, it’s sad that it’s not even remotely close, either.
I was gonna respond but it’s not worth it..if you really think this is worse than Sarver, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Certainly worse than late-Sarver era. Sarver took us to the Finals. Ishbia destroyed a Finals team.
Ya let’s just count the 2 years of Sarver’s reign where he finally learned to let go of some control.
And Ishbia did not destroy a finals team. That team was barely in the play-in when he took over.
Re: Suns Trade Nurkic
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:21 pm
by Cap
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 3:15 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:04 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:26 pm
JeremyG wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 1:11 pm
Split T wrote: ↑Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:42 pm
lol, not remotely close
Yeah I know, it’s sad that it’s not even remotely close, either.
I was gonna respond but it’s not worth it..if you really think this is worse than Sarver, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Certainly worse than late-Sarver era. Sarver took us to the Finals. Ishbia destroyed a Finals team.
Ya let’s just count the 2 years of Sarver’s reign where he finally learned to let go of some control.
And Ishbia did not destroy a finals team. That team was barely in the play-in when he took over.
I didn’t have time to look up this Sarver guy’s whole career, so I just checked the W-L records for the first six and last two years of his tenure. I don’t see what everybody’s problem is.