The Mike Budenholzer / James Jones problem

[Mori Chu]

Okay, so coach Bud gets fired.

They're paying Gentry, Vogel, and Budenholzer. That's three head coaches they have to pay that are no longer with the team. Ishbia has to make the right decision and get the right coach to do the job.

Gentry?

Still getting royalties from the SSOL book and his iconic, "YSMF!" quote. Deservedly.

[The Bobster]

Here are the major deals that have occurred under Jones' watch -

May 2019 - Hired Monty Williams
Jul 2019 - Traded Jarrett Culver for Cameron Johnson & Dario Saric
Jul 2019 - Traded Josh Jackson & DeAnthony Melton for Jevon Carter
Jul 2019 - Signed Ricky Rubio
Jul 2019 - Signed Kelly Oubre Jr.
Jul 2019 - Signed Frank Kaminsky
Jun 2020 - Signed Cameron Payne
Nov 2020 - Trade Ty Jerome, Kelly Oubre Jr., Ricky Rubio & a 1st round pick for Chris Paul
Nov 2020 - Draft Jalen Smith
Nov 2020 - Sign Jae Crowder
Mar 2021 - Trade cash for Torrey Craig
Aug 2021 - Trade Jevon Carter & Day'Ron Sharpe for Landry Shamet
Aug 2021 - Sign Elfrid Payton
Aug 2021 - Sign JaVeale McGee
Jan 2022 - Sign Bismack Biyombo
Feb 2022 - Trade Jalen Smith for Torrey Craig
Jul 2022 - Sign Damion Lee & Josh Okogie
Jul 2022 - Trade cash for Jock Landale
Feb 2023 - Trade Dario Saric to Darius Bazley
Feb 2023 - Trade Mikal Bridges, Jae Crowder, Cameron Johnson & 4 1st round picks (2023, 2025, 2027, 2028, and a right to swap in 2029) for Kevin Durant & T.J. Warren
May 2023 - Fire Monty Williams
Jun 2023 - Hire Frank Vogel
Jun 2023 - Trade Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, 5 2nd round picks (& the right to swap 4 1st round picks 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030) for Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin and Isaiah Todd
Jul 2023 - Sign Keita Bates-Diop, Drew Eubanks, Chimeze Metu, Yuta Watanabe & Eric Gordon
Jul 2023 - Trade Cameron Payne for a 2nd round pick
Sep 2023 - Trade Deandre Ayton & Toumani Camara for Grayson Allen, Jusuf Nurkic, Keon Johnson & Nassir Little
Feb 2024 - Trade Keita Bates-Diop, Jordan Goodwin, Chimezie Metu, Yuta Watanabe & a 2026 1st round pick swap and three 2nd round picks for Royce O'Neal & David Roddy
May 2024 - Fire Frank Vogel
May 2024 - Hire Mike Budenholzer
Jun 2024 - Trade DaRon Holmes II to Denver for Ryan Dunn & a 2nd round draft choice
Jun 2024 - Trade Kevin MCCullar Jr. for Oso Ighodaro
Jul 2024 - Sign Collin Gillespie
Jul 2024 - Sign Mason Plumlee, Monte Morris & Tyus Jones
Jan 2015 - Trade Josh Okogie for Nick Richards
Feb 2025 - Trade Jusuf Nurkic for Cody Martin & Vasilije Micic
Apr 2025 - Fire Mike Budenholzer

[Kryptonic]

Yup, time for Jones to go.

[iLLmatic]

https://arizonasports.com/nba/phoenix-s ... d/3575409/

[Superbone]

Yup, time for Jones to go.

One down, one to go?

[The Bobster]

We all know that no coach is going to fix this team. They quit on Bud, and that shouldn't all be blamed on Bud's personality differences with them. Are thir players coach killers? You be the judge -

KEVIN DURRANT (17 years, 4 teams, 9 coaches)
2007-08 - P.J. Carlesimo
2008-15 - Scott Brooks
2015-16 - Billy Donovan
2016-19 - Steve Kerr (2019-20 - Steve Kerr - DNP)
2020-22 - Steve Nash
2022-23 - Jacque Vaughn
2023-23 - Monty Williams
2023-24 - Frank Vogel
2024-25 - Mike Budenholzer

DEVIN BOOKER (10 years, 1 team, 7 coaches)
2015-16 - Jeff Hornacek
2016-17 - Earl Watson
2017-18 - Jay Triano
2018-19 - Igor Kokoskov
2019-23 - Monty Williams
2023-24 - Frank Vogel
2024-25 - Mike Budenholzer

BRADLEY BEAL (13 years, 2 teams, 5 coaches)
2012-16 - Randy Wittman
2016-21 - Scott Brooks
2021-23 - Wes Unseld Jr.
2023-24 - Frank Vogel
2024-25 - Mike Budenholzer

Durrant has managed to have 5 different coaches in the last 5 years (granted he was traded twice) and I don't hold Booker accountable for the pre-Chris Paul mess here, but 3 of the last 4 coaches he's had got fired after 1 season. And somehow the Suns made the Wizards look like a stable franchise when it comes to Beal's career.

[JJ Slim]

Holy shit! Jeff Hornacek was the Suns coach?!?!

[Superbone]

Here are the major deals that have occurred under Jones' watch -

May 2019 - Hired Monty Williams
Jul 2019 - Traded Jarrett Culver for Cameron Johnson & Dario Saric
Jul 2019 - Traded Josh Jackson & DeAnthony Melton for Jevon Carter
Jul 2019 - Signed Ricky Rubio
Jul 2019 - Signed Kelly Oubre Jr.
Jul 2019 - Signed Frank Kaminsky
Jun 2020 - Signed Cameron Payne
Nov 2020 - Trade Ty Jerome, Kelly Oubre Jr., Ricky Rubio & a 1st round pick for Chris Paul
Nov 2020 - Draft Jalen Smith
Nov 2020 - Sign Jae Crowder
Mar 2021 - Trade cash for Torrey Craig
Aug 2021 - Trade Jevon Carter & Day'Ron Sharpe for Landry Shamet
Aug 2021 - Sign Elfrid Payton
Aug 2021 - Sign JaVeale McGee
Jan 2022 - Sign Bismack Biyombo
Feb 2022 - Trade Jalen Smith for Torrey Craig
Jul 2022 - Sign Damion Lee & Josh Okogie
Jul 2022 - Trade cash for Jock Landale
Feb 2023 - Trade Dario Saric to Darius Bazley
Feb 2023 - Trade Mikal Bridges, Jae Crowder, Cameron Johnson & 4 1st round picks (2023, 2025, 2027, 2028, and a right to swap in 2029) for Kevin Durant & T.J. Warren
May 2023 - Fire Monty Williams
Jun 2023 - Hire Frank Vogel
Jun 2023 - Trade Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, 5 2nd round picks (& the right to swap 4 1st round picks 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030) for Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin and Isaiah Todd
Jul 2023 - Sign Keita Bates-Diop, Drew Eubanks, Chimeze Metu, Yuta Watanabe & Eric Gordon
Jul 2023 - Trade Cameron Payne for a 2nd round pick
Sep 2023 - Trade Deandre Ayton & Toumani Camara for Grayson Allen, Jusuf Nurkic, Keon Johnson & Nassir Little
Feb 2024 - Trade Keita Bates-Diop, Jordan Goodwin, Chimezie Metu, Yuta Watanabe & a 2026 1st round pick swap and three 2nd round picks for Royce O'Neal & David Roddy
May 2024 - Fire Frank Vogel
May 2024 - Hire Mike Budenholzer
Jun 2024 - Trade DaRon Holmes II to Denver for Ryan Dunn & a 2nd round draft choice
Jun 2024 - Trade Kevin MCCullar Jr. for Oso Ighodaro
Jul 2024 - Sign Collin Gillespie
Jul 2024 - Sign Mason Plumlee, Monte Morris & Tyus Jones
Jan 2015 - Trade Josh Okogie for Nick Richards
Feb 2025 - Trade Jusuf Nurkic for Cody Martin & Vasilije Micic
Apr 2025 - Fire Mike Budenholzer

HIT - May 2019 - Hired Monty Williams
Hit - Jul 2019 - Traded Jarrett Culver for Cameron Johnson & Dario Saric
Miss - Jul 2019 - Traded Josh Jackson & DeAnthony Melton for Jevon Carter
Hit - Jul 2019 - Signed Ricky Rubio
Hit - Jul 2019 - Signed Kelly Oubre Jr.
Hit - Jul 2019 - Signed Frank Kaminsky
Hit - Jun 2020 - Signed Cameron Payne
HIT - Nov 2020 - Trade Ty Jerome, Kelly Oubre Jr., Ricky Rubio & a 1st round pick for Chris Paul
MISS - Nov 2020 - Draft Jalen Smith
Hit - Nov 2020 - Sign Jae Crowder
Hit - Mar 2021 - Trade cash for Torrey Craig
Miss - Aug 2021 - Trade Jevon Carter & Day'Ron Sharpe for Landry Shamet
Miss - Aug 2021 - Sign Elfrid Payton
Hit - Aug 2021 - Sign JaVeale McGee
Hit - Jan 2022 - Sign Bismack Biyombo
Miss - Feb 2022 - Trade Jalen Smith for Torrey Craig
Hit - Jul 2022 - Sign Damion Lee & Josh Okogie
Hit - Jul 2022 - Trade cash for Jock Landale
Miss - Feb 2023 - Trade Dario Saric to Darius Bazley
MISS - Feb 2023 - Trade Mikal Bridges, Jae Crowder, Cameron Johnson & 4 1st round picks (2023, 2025, 2027, 2028, and a right to swap in 2029) for Kevin Durant & T.J. Warren
Miss? Hit? I don't knows; will call it a wash - May 2023 - Fire Monty Williams
Miss - Jun 2023 - Hire Frank Vogel
MISS - Jun 2023 - Trade Chris Paul, Landry Shamet, 5 2nd round picks (& the right to swap 4 1st round picks 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030) for Bradley Beal, Jordan Goodwin and Isaiah Todd
Miss - Jul 2023 - Sign Keita Bates-Diop, Drew Eubanks, Chimeze Metu, Yuta Watanabe & Eric Gordon
Miss - Jul 2023 - Trade Cameron Payne for a 2nd round pick
Miss - Sep 2023 - Trade Deandre Ayton & Toumani Camara for Grayson Allen, Jusuf Nurkic, Keon Johnson & Nassir Little
Hit - Feb 2024 - Trade Keita Bates-Diop, Jordan Goodwin, Chimezie Metu, Yuta Watanabe & a 2026 1st round pick swap and three 2nd round picks for Royce O'Neal & David Roddy
Wash (undoes miss) - May 2024 - Fire Frank Vogel
Miss - May 2024 - Hire Mike Budenholzer
HIT - Jun 2024 - Trade DaRon Holmes II to Denver for Ryan Dunn & a 2nd round draft choice
HIT - Jun 2024 - Trade Kevin MCCullar Jr. for Oso Ighodaro
Hit - Jul 2024 - Sign Collin Gillespie
Miss - Jul 2024 - Sign Mason Plumlee, Monte Morris & Tyus Jones
Hit - Jan 2015 - Trade Josh Okogie for Nick Richards
Hit? - Feb 2025 - Trade Jusuf Nurkic for Cody Martin & Vasilije Micic
Wash (undoes miss) - Apr 2025 - Fire Mike Budenholzer

Hits/Total
19/36
53%

Of course, those are my opinion and the stats don't factor in the BIG hits and misses. It's actually a smaller percentage of positive hits than I expected. Thanks for laying this out, Bobster! Thoughts?

[Superbone]

Holy shit! Jeff Hornacek was the Suns coach?!?!

Dude. During one of our best years during the lean years.

[Superbone]

We all know that no coach is going to fix this team. They quit on Bud, and that shouldn't all be blamed on Bud's personality differences with them. Are thir players coach killers? You be the judge -

KEVIN DURRANT (17 years, 4 teams, 9 coaches)
2007-08 - P.J. Carlesimo
2008-15 - Scott Brooks
2015-16 - Billy Donovan
2016-19 - Steve Kerr (2019-20 - Steve Kerr - DNP)
2020-22 - Steve Nash
2022-23 - Jacque Vaughn
2023-23 - Monty Williams
2023-24 - Frank Vogel
2024-25 - Mike Budenholzer

DEVIN BOOKER (10 years, 1 team, 7 coaches)
2015-16 - Jeff Hornacek
2016-17 - Earl Watson
2017-18 - Jay Triano
2018-19 - Igor Kokoskov
2019-23 - Monty Williams
2023-24 - Frank Vogel
2024-25 - Mike Budenholzer

BRADLEY BEAL (13 years, 2 teams, 5 coaches)
2012-16 - Randy Wittman
2016-21 - Scott Brooks
2021-23 - Wes Unseld Jr.
2023-24 - Frank Vogel
2024-25 - Mike Budenholzer

Durrant has managed to have 5 different coaches in the last 5 years (granted he was traded twice) and I don't hold Booker accountable for the pre-Chris Paul mess here, but 3 of the last 4 coaches he's had got fired after 1 season. And somehow the Suns made the Wizards look like a stable franchise when it comes to Beal's career.

Here's my assessment:

Durant - Coach Killer
Booker - Not a coach killer
Beal - Not a coach killer

[The Bobster]

Thanks for laying this out, Bobster! Thoughts?

The first half of his tenure was pretty good. The second half has been pretty shaky.

[JJ Slim]

Holy shit! Jeff Hornacek was the Suns coach?!?!

Dude. During one of our best years during the lean years.

Yeah I know I missed a bunch. I might not have even come back but I saw the Suns won the lottery and I started paying at least a little attention again.

[Superbone]

Thanks for laying this out, Bobster! Thoughts?

The first half of his tenure was pretty good. The second half has been pretty shaky.

Yes, I noticed that trend as well. How much of that is Ishbia influenced I guess would be another question. Is it possible Sarver was better at being hands off with him?

[Superbone]

Holy shit! Jeff Hornacek was the Suns coach?!?!

Dude. During one of our best years during the lean years.

Yeah I know I missed a bunch. I might not have even come back but I saw the Suns won the lottery and I started paying at least a little attention again.

Pretty sure it was during the Sarver lean years when we got Miles Plumlee and Gerald Green along with Dragic and Bledsoe and we just barely missed the playoffs even with 48 wins. It was a really fun team to watch.

[iLLmatic]

Holy shit! Jeff Hornacek was the Suns coach?!?!

Dude. During one of our best years during the lean years.

That 2013 team was fun.

[iLLmatic]

They were lobbing the ball up to Gerald Green and Plumlee.

[JJ Slim]

Dragic? As in the Dragon? I thought he left.

[Superbone]

They were lobbing the ball up to Gerald Green and Plumlee.

Man, Green was fun to watch that year. He had amazing dunks and was hitting threes at a good clip. He kind of fell off the map after that season. I don't even remember what happened to him.

[Superbone]

Dragic? As in the Dragon? I thought he left.

He came and went multiple times.

[JJ Slim]

Dragic? As in the Dragon? I thought he left.

He came and went multiple times.

Lol! I thought he was awesome!