Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:09 am

Not great

Wonderful news.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:56 am

I think how we talk about that game is misleading. Three points that I think are important:

1. If Artest doesn’t get that rebound and put back, we still have to win in OT
2. Jason Richardson banked in a 3 just to tie it. Might have been more of a lucky shot than Artest.
3. We still went home and lost game 6 on our own floor.

Sure, it’s possible that Artest putback flipped the series, but I think LA was better and we almost got lucky.

We have almost always lost game 6 when down 3-2. We knew the series was over after that loss. Suns are never mentally tough enough.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:44 am

Gentry screwed up that lineup on the final play. Lopez should've been in the game.

He hardly played him at all that series just because he was coming back from injury. I always wondered what could have been if he had played him more.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:56 am

I think how we talk about that game is misleading. Three points that I think are important:

1. If Artest doesn’t get that rebound and put back, we still have to win in OT
2. Jason Richardson banked in a 3 just to tie it. Might have been more of a lucky shot than Artest.
3. We still went home and lost game 6 on our own floor.

Sure, it’s possible that Artest putback flipped the series, but I think LA was better and we almost got lucky.

You know, in my crusty old brain, I had remembered that Artest tip-in as having happened in an elimination game. But you're absolutely right: it happened in Game 5, and the Lakers had to come to Phoenix and beat us, IN OUR OWN GYM, to eliminate us. That series wasn't as close as I had remembered. If we deserved to win the title that year, we shouldn't have let them beat us on our own home floor. But gosh I loved that 2010 squad, one of my all-time faves right up there with 2006, 2007, 2005.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:16 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:56 am

I think how we talk about that game is misleading. Three points that I think are important:

1. If Artest doesn’t get that rebound and put back, we still have to win in OT
2. Jason Richardson banked in a 3 just to tie it. Might have been more of a lucky shot than Artest.
3. We still went home and lost game 6 on our own floor.

Sure, it’s possible that Artest putback flipped the series, but I think LA was better and we almost got lucky.

You know, in my crusty old brain, I had remembered that Artest tip-in as having happened in an elimination game. But you're absolutely right: it happened in Game 5, and the Lakers had to come to Phoenix and beat us, IN OUR OWN GYM, to eliminate us. That series wasn't as close as I had remembered. If we deserved to win the title that year, we shouldn't have let them beat us on our own home floor. But gosh I loved that 2010 squad, one of my all-time faves right up there with 2006, 2007, 2005.

In addition to 2010, we were also eliminated on our own home floor in 1993, 1995, 1996, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2022, and 2023. Somebody else can go back further if they want.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:09 am

Not great

Who really wants a half effort C on a max deal? I'm guessing there won't be much in the way of suitors, just like his RFA last year.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 2:16 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 9:56 am

I think how we talk about that game is misleading. Three points that I think are important:

1. If Artest doesn’t get that rebound and put back, we still have to win in OT
2. Jason Richardson banked in a 3 just to tie it. Might have been more of a lucky shot than Artest.
3. We still went home and lost game 6 on our own floor.

Sure, it’s possible that Artest putback flipped the series, but I think LA was better and we almost got lucky.

You know, in my crusty old brain, I had remembered that Artest tip-in as having happened in an elimination game. But you're absolutely right: it happened in Game 5, and the Lakers had to come to Phoenix and beat us, IN OUR OWN GYM, to eliminate us. That series wasn't as close as I had remembered. If we deserved to win the title that year, we shouldn't have let them beat us on our own home floor. But gosh I loved that 2010 squad, one of my all-time faves right up there with 2006, 2007, 2005.

The momentum swing would have been huge though and could have easily changed the outcome of game 6.

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:04 pm

Who really wants a half effort C on a max deal? I'm guessing there won't be much in the way of suitors, just like his RFA last year.

Yeah, his restricted free agency was very telling. I think we're probably looking at Atlanta, NY, and Washington being interested. But I don't know how reliable Gambo is with this stuff; he is a contributor to the APN, plus I don't understand why all of these teams would be telling him that they aren't interested in Ayton.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:47 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:04 pm

Who really wants a half effort C on a max deal? I'm guessing there won't be much in the way of suitors, just like his RFA last year.

Yeah, his restricted free agency was very telling. I think we're probably looking at Atlanta, NY, and Washington being interested. But I don't know how reliable Gambo is with this stuff; he is a contributor to the APN, plus I don't understand why all of these teams would be telling him that they aren't interested in Ayton.

He has relationships with people throughout the league. For example, he is very close with Jason Kidd, so he usually knows what the Mavericks are thinking. He says Dallas has "lukewarm" interest in Ayton, but only if their other pursuits fail them.

VanVleet jumped to Free Agency...and is available...fwiw.

VanVleet Free Agent

The question on Vleet is can we create room for him as a FA to sign him...

No, we can't. It would have to be a sign and trade.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:14 pm

No, we can't. It would have to be a sign and trade.

Well, there's this awesome guy named Shamet I think they should just LOVE...that's a starting point...

Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:12 pm

The question on Vleet is can we create room for him as a FA to sign him...

He already turned down $20m from Toronto. He presumably won't sign for less than that. I don't think we could free up that kind of money even if we moved CP3 or Ayton.

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:07 am

Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:12 pm

The question on Vleet is can we create room for him as a FA to sign him...

He already turned down $20m from Toronto. He presumably won't sign for less than that. I don't think we could free up that kind of money even if we moved CP3 or Ayton.

Which is why it would have to be a sign and trade...as Inf already pointed out...

If Pelicans are able to trade up for Scoot, I would think McCollum would be available, right?
What about this?

Pels: Ayton, Shamet

Suns: McCollum, Nance


Valanciunas would also work too but I would think you definitely have to wave and stretch CP for cap reasons.

I could be wrong but I think we would be in a weird area where we couldnt get TPMLE if we just waive but not stretch, but we would get MLE and BAE if we stretched and waive. Not sure tho.

You can also do this deal with CP instead of Ayton, maybe the pelicans would prefer to just get off the 30 million and get cap space instead.

I’m cool any of these scenarios tho.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:07 pm

If Pelicans are able to trade up for Scoot, I would think McCollum would be available, right?
What about this?

Pels: Ayton, Shamet

Suns: McCollum, Nance


Valanciunas would also work too but I would think you definitely have to wave and stretch CP for cap reasons.

Depends on how Willie Green feels about Ayton. Also, the Pels aren't making a trade for Ayton with Valanciunas still on the roster. And while I don't think McCollum is untouchable, I don't think they would give him up to bring in Ayton. He is kind of the heart and soul of that team, and with Zion being unreliable, and the internal frustration with Ingram's prolonged absence, I don't see them shipping out the most steady player to make a potentially lateral move of Valanciunas to Ayton.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:21 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:07 pm

If Pelicans are able to trade up for Scoot, I would think McCollum would be available, right?
What about this?

Pels: Ayton, Shamet

Suns: McCollum, Nance


Valanciunas would also work too but I would think you definitely have to wave and stretch CP for cap reasons.

Depends on how Willie Green feels about Ayton. Also, the Pels aren't making a trade for Ayton with Valanciunas still on the roster. And while I don't think McCollum is untouchable, I don't think they would give him up to bring in Ayton. He is kind of the heart and soul of that team, and with Zion being unreliable, and the internal frustration with Ingram's prolonged absence, I don't see them shipping out the most steady player to make a potentially lateral move of Valanciunas to Ayton.

I don't think you followed CJ this year. He was roughhh. It was also his first "healthy" season in 4 seasons, and I think that's only because he played through injury. I'd avoid him - especially at his cost.

Love Nance, but he's also always hurt.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:21 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 1:07 pm

If Pelicans are able to trade up for Scoot, I would think McCollum would be available, right?
What about this?

Pels: Ayton, Shamet

Suns: McCollum, Nance


Valanciunas would also work too but I would think you definitely have to wave and stretch CP for cap reasons.

Depends on how Willie Green feels about Ayton. Also, the Pels aren't making a trade for Ayton with Valanciunas still on the roster. And while I don't think McCollum is untouchable, I don't think they would give him up to bring in Ayton. He is kind of the heart and soul of that team, and with Zion being unreliable, and the internal frustration with Ingram's prolonged absence, I don't see them shipping out the most steady player to make a potentially lateral move of Valanciunas to Ayton.

My trade scenarios were based on the assumption that Pelicans were able to trade up for Scoot, so either Zion or Ingram are probably gone too. While I think CJ could totally play with Scoot, he doesn’t really fit their timeline because trading for Scoot, probably means resetting their timeline back another couple years. CJ isn’t getting younger and would probably prefer to be move to a contender in this scenario.

But I get it, that’s a lot of ifs going on there. Just speculating out loud haha.

CJ would be interesting. Looking at his numbers, he basically was the same player he always was except he was awful on long 2s. He’s a career 45% on long 2s and he shot 33%. His 3pt shooting and mid range and closer stuff was all pretty good. Defense would be a concern though.