Phx-Suns.Net

ShelC wrote:Bobby Portis is my guy. I like his length, energy, rebounding and ability to block shots. 6-11, 250 with a 7-2 wingspan can give us a long frontline with Len. He may not be the best athlete, but he doesn't have to be at that size. I also like that he's an energy guy but still has offensive skills. Usually hustle guys have to hustle because they can't do anything offensively outside of 6 ft (Faried, Acy, Plumlee, Gibson). If Portis can be a hustle guy, rebounder, run the floor in transition and still pop out and shoot, that's a pretty solid combo.

I'm not as high on Portis, he doesn't really block shots and offensively he gets lost against better athletes. I watched that same Kentucky game, I thought their athletes swallowed him up. I worry about a guy his size that can't post up and has a slowish jump shot.

I love his size, I like that he works hard and has some versatility; and he probably has a pretty good chance to be a role-player for whomever takes him, but I think he's pretty limited offensively and not a great athlete.

If we are choosing between Kaminsky or Portis - I think its a no-brainer. Athletically they are about the same, but Kaminsky is so much better offensively and probably a little better rebounder as well.
Of course we may not be in that position, one or both could be gone before us.

Gladiator wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2015/06/23/nba-mo ... uel-mudiay

Sports Illustrated's latest mock has us passing on Kaminsky, Johnson and Portis and taking .... Willie Cauley-Stein, who they have dropping down to 13.

I'm not as high on WCS as other people are.

I get it, he's big and athletic and can guard a ton of positions; but he's beyond limited offensively.

At 13? Sure, I can't really argue against taking a dynamic defensive big man at that spot, but if the guys an A defender, he's probably a D- offensive player... whats that average out to? It just hurts his value so much when he's essentially only going to be really useful on half the court. We've seen how NBA teams play against guys who can't shoot or drive - makes it so much tougher to get the offense going. You can play some P/R with him, but that's about it.

I heard someone on ESPN talking about the draft comp him to Birdman, I thought that was pretty realistic.

I agree 100% with your take on WCS. He's already 22 as well. I don't have faith his offensive game will be there

Sunsfan4life wrote:I agree 100% with your take on WCS. He's already 22 as well. I don't have faith his offensive game will be there

Idk man. I saw a video of him draining 3s pretty effortlessly. I think he can do some things we didn't see at Kentucky. I'd be thrilled if he fell to #13 providing the ankles aren't a big issue.

He won't fall to 13. I also think he's better than he was allowed to be at Kentucky.

Sunsfan4life wrote:I agree 100% with your take on WCS. He's already 22 as well. I don't have faith his offensive game will be there

Calipari says that he has the offensive game, its just that the roster was so loaded at Kentucky, he was not allowed (by Calipari) to use it. He said this particularly in reference to his shooting. His workouts seem to concur. Workout shooting is different than game shooting though.

The main thing about WCS is that his strengths are almost a guaranteed fit in the NBA. His floor is really high. He is a 7 footer with the speed and agility to guard the wing positions. He can guard 3-5 easily. That is just so valuable.

I think if WCS falls, you have to take him. He would be in a Drummond, Sullinger category. Players who were analyzed so much that teams missed the obvious value.

JCSunsfan wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:I agree 100% with your take on WCS. He's already 22 as well. I don't have faith his offensive game will be there

Calipari says that he has the offensive game, its just that the roster was so loaded at Kentucky, he was not allowed (by Calipari) to use it. He said this particularly in reference to his shooting. His workouts seem to concur. Workout shooting is different than game shooting though.

The main thing about WCS is that his strengths are almost a guaranteed fit in the NBA. His floor is really high. He is a 7 footer with the speed and agility to guard the wing positions. He can guard 3-5 easily. That is just so valuable.

I think if WCS falls, you have to take him. He would be in a Drummond, Sullinger category. Players who were analyzed so much that teams missed the obvious value.

What else would Coach Cal say? He's not going to say the guy is an offensive liability. Coach Cal had no problem finding shots for guys that could score the ball, but WCS never showed he was able to do that, not much touch inside, no post game, and not a very good shooter. I think you can run some P/R stuff with him where he dives to the rim and dunks once in awhile, but nobody defensively is going to honor him.

Unless he gets significantly better offensively, teams are going to help way off of him and force us to play at times 4 on 5.

At 13? Like I said, I can't really argue against it because he is going to be a very good defensive player at this level and that's good value at #13. But I don't think he's steal there either. I'd rather have Kaminsky. I might rather have Booker as well. What about Turner? That's an interesting one, I think Turner is much riskier but I like his upside more..... Portis or WCS? I'm probably taking WCS.

carey wrote:

Sunsfan4life wrote:I agree 100% with your take on WCS. He's already 22 as well. I don't have faith his offensive game will be there

Idk man. I saw a video of him draining 3s pretty effortlessly. I think he can do some things we didn't see at Kentucky. I'd be thrilled if he fell to #13 providing the ankles aren't a big issue.

If he falls to 13, then yea I think you take him because how good a defender and versitile he is. I'm just saying alot of people have him going #5 and I think it's too high for him.

JC has a good point about his high-floor, WCS is going to be a valuable defender in the NBA right away and for a long time to come. That's valuable, and at #13? Pretty good value.

But I do think he's overhyped and if he falls to us, it won't be a big steal. He's very limited offensively and not because he hasn't played a lot of basketball or because he's young, he's just limited - that's probably not going to change much. I think his upside is pretty restricted because of that.

I heard that WCS is falling because of an re-injury and a surgery where the screw was inserted incorrectly. I think he is a great value at 13 though. You take him and your Center position is well stocked.

Preacherpj wrote:

ShelC wrote:Bobby Portis is my guy. I like his length, energy, rebounding and ability to block shots. 6-11, 250 with a 7-2 wingspan can give us a long frontline with Len. He may not be the best athlete, but he doesn't have to be at that size. I also like that he's an energy guy but still has offensive skills. Usually hustle guys have to hustle because they can't do anything offensively outside of 6 ft (Faried, Acy, Plumlee, Gibson). If Portis can be a hustle guy, rebounder, run the floor in transition and still pop out and shoot, that's a pretty solid combo.

I'm not as high on Portis, he doesn't really block shots and offensively he gets lost against better athletes. I watched that same Kentucky game, I thought their athletes swallowed him up. I worry about a guy his size that can't post up and has a slowish jump shot.

I love his size, I like that he works hard and has some versatility; and he probably has a pretty good chance to be a role-player for whomever takes him, but I think he's pretty limited offensively and not a great athlete.

If we are choosing between Kaminsky or Portis - I think its a no-brainer. Athletically they are about the same, but Kaminsky is so much better offensively and probably a little better rebounder as well.
Of course we may not be in that position, one or both could be gone before us.

I am not sold either. He reminds me of an Otto Porter. OK at lots of things, not exceptional at any one thing. I want a player who is good at several things and excels in one particular aspect of the game.

Preacherpj wrote: What else would Coach Cal say? He's not going to say the guy is an offensive liability. Coach Cal had no problem finding shots for guys that could score the ball, but WCS never showed he was able to do that, not much touch inside, no post game, and not a very good shooter. I think you can run some P/R stuff with him where he dives to the rim and dunks once in awhile, but nobody defensively is going to honor him.

Unless he gets significantly better offensively, teams are going to help way off of him and force us to play at times 4 on 5.

Sounds like you guys are describing DeAndre Jordan. Sounds pretty good to me.

Paul Coro's final mock draft. Has us taking Kaminsky.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /29213763/

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/613764581320728577 https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/613805158078750720 https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/613805575839838208

Wally_West wrote:Paul Coro's final mock draft. Has us taking Kaminsky.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /29213763/

I have been high on Kaminsky for a while. But I am cooling some. When I heard about him cutting weight so he could play more on the wing, it just doesnt sound right.

I for some reason like Turner - a lot actually - because I believe he could (maybe slowly) develop into a real game changer and I think that is what you should be looking for with that type of pick. Even in a deep draft like this it is basically hit or miss by the time you reach the double digits. Well, that's at least how I would approach things this year - given our current roster/core.

Actually not a big fan of Portis - he just seems rather average to me.

After all that talk I am really not expecting WCS or Kaminsky to be there at 13# - but who knows ...

Yep. Players I like (Besides the obvious). Porzingis, WCS, Kaminsky, Turner, Lyles (maybe), Looney.

Players I don't like: Portis, Booker (one trick pony), Harrell (undersized for a pf, can't shoot from the outside).

I'm cooling on Kaminsky too. I heard one scout say that the entire Wisconsin offense was designed to run through him and react to the decisions that he made. I just don't see NBA offenses running through Kaminsky.

In2ition wrote:I'm cooling on Kaminsky too. I heard one scout say that the entire Wisconsin offense was designed to run through him and react to the decisions that he made. I just don't see NBA offenses running through Kaminsky.

See I think that's a big reason why I like Kaminsky so much; Wisconsin was historically good offensively, one of the most efficient offenses ever. And a big part of that was they had this big guy who could play anywhere on the court.

They ran a lot of offense through him because in a P/R he could pop and hit deep jumpers, he could post up and get the opposing big in foul trouble, he could set-up at the high-post and cause all sorts of havoc.

I don't see why running an offense through someone is construed as a negative. Obviously NBA teams won't do that, but all the skills that allowed Kaminsky to score so well -- shooting, dribbling, posting, passing, FTs, and IQ -- are all still there.

He's so much more skilled than guys like Turner, Lyles, Portis, Looney, Harrell -- its not even comparable. And unlike some of those guys, Kaminsky had some of his best games against big time opponents. At #13? I love Kaminsky. If we do end up trading up, there's guys with more upside that have to be taken.

I don't think Kaminsky is going to be around at #13 anyway, so I'm prepared to be sad.